D&D 5E I'm the DM and a player is trying to abuse the Immovable Rod. Advice?

[seebs]

Sorry but this is naive.

A pair of immovable rods are eminently abusable even if you don't forget to have the character press the button.

Define "abuse".

I don't have any objection to people being successful in using a significant hunk of their magic budget on interesting utility items that they use in creative ways to get cool results. I have never seen immovable rods produce game-breaking results, but I've seen some really interesting and fun results, so I'm fine with that.

 

[Yunru]

CapnZapp has a habit of finding anything and everything in 5e broken. You could time a clock to it

Joking aside, and back on topic, I'd just rule that his grapples can restrain if he uses the Immovable Rods. Yes, I'd make it a single action. Of course as people have mentioned the immovable rods are probably the hardest part to move (unless you push the button), the chain not so much.

 

[Mercule]

As others have pointed out, it takes an action for each rod to lock into place.

As others have pointed out, the player is not the referee and does not get to make rulings. That's explicitly the sole purview of the DM. Player input may be welcomed, but it's optional. (Jerk DMs are another story that can -- and has -- have its own thread.)

As others have pointed out, a hit does not indicate "perfect placement" of anything. "Perfect placement", with the intent to cause damage would be a critical hit and maximum damage on the dice. If the intent is to use a weapon in a non-standard way, there is probably some other criteria, but that's close enough.

As others have pointed out, restraining is move a function of grappling than of a standard attack.

At best, he has an argument for being able to use the two rods to restrain if a) he rolls a critical hit (perfect placement) for both during the same round, b) he opts to use each rod to start a pseudo-grapple instead of doing damage (probably prompting an athletics/acrobatics check for each), and c) the creature is absolutely immobile for two more rounds, while he takes his action to set one each round.

If he throws a fit, give him 30 minutes. If he can position two real-world hammers, broomsticks, etc. in such a way that they would actually hold you in place, if they were immovable, then he can start making his case. He still has to contend with the action to set each, which is probably a limiter, in itself. If he can't come up with a way to do it, then he owes you a new D&D book of your choice and/or a pizza, just for being intentionally obtuse.

 

[cmad1977]

I would have simply said. 'Nice idea, doesn't work like that'
And if he threw a fit my response would be
'GTFO'.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mellored]

Add an extra monster.

 

[Yunru]

Okay, the problem here isn't the immovable rod, or the cleverness. It's him making rulings like "if I make two hits they're immobilized". That's not a feature the rod has. The rod just stops moving. You can't use it to immobilize something most of the time. It's just gonna sit there. It doesn't change shape, it doesn't wrap around things, it has NOTHING to let you use it to immobilize a creature. (Normally. In a game under slightly different rules, I did once take out an immovable rod, push the button, let go of the rod, and teleport out of the creature that had just swallowed me...)

QFT.

 

[BoldItalic]

Show him a printout of this thread.

Don't comment, or start a discussion about it, just place it in front of him. When he reads it, he will know (a) the game is up and (b) you both know the game is up.

End of problem.

 

[Sunseeker]

Sorry but this is naive.

A pair of immovable rods are eminently abusable even if you don't forget to have the character press the button.

The forum went down the moment I attempted to respond but here's more or less what I wrote.

I took some time to review some of the possible "abuses". All of them rely on the DM either not knowing how the item works, or the DM allowing you to get away with shenanigans with the item. There are a few reasonable uses mentioned, such as blocking up a heavy door or stopping a fast-moving object, which are clearly "intended uses" not abuses. There are others that are clearly abuses, but they rely on an abuse of the rules, not an abuse of the item, such as being swallowed by a dragon and activating the item. When you are swallowed you are considered Restrained, meaning you can take no Actions. It is an Action to activate the rod, therefore you cannot do this. Others rely on heavy abuse of the concept of "Restrained". You may be able to pin a man down with a Rod, but the Rod does nothing to impair his limbs or other body parts, unless you sit there and bat away his hands he can simply turn the Rod off. Infinite ladder? You need 3, not two. One to stand on while you climb up the others, because otherwise it's more like infinite Monkey Bars, and that calls for Endurance checks because you can't hang from your arms for forever. Not to mention half the suggestions require modding the rod, or activating it from range. The first is easy to resolve: it's a magic item, don't allow modifications, that's where the 3.X crafting system was broken. The second is less easy to resolve, since you could potentially activate it with a mage-hand, but otherwise it's not remote-controlled. You have to push a physical button on the Rod itsself.

So quite frankly I'm just not seeing the terror in two immovable rods.

 

[Yunru]

The forum went down the moment I attempted to respond but here's more or less what I wrote.

I took some time to review some of the possible "abuses". All of them rely on the DM either not knowing how the item works, or the DM allowing you to get away with shenanigans with the item. There are a few reasonable uses mentioned, such as blocking up a heavy door or stopping a fast-moving object, which are clearly "intended uses" not abuses. There are others that are clearly abuses, but they rely on an abuse of the rules, not an abuse of the item, such as being swallowed by a dragon and activating the item. When you are swallowed you are considered Restrained, meaning you can take no Actions. It is an Action to activate the rod, therefore you cannot do this. Others rely on heavy abuse of the concept of "Restrained". You may be able to pin a man down with a Rod, but the Rod does nothing to impair his limbs or other body parts, unless you sit there and bat away his hands he can simply turn the Rod off. Infinite ladder? You need 3, not two. One to stand on while you climb up the others, because otherwise it's more like infinite Monkey Bars, and that calls for Endurance checks because you can't hang from your arms for forever. Not to mention half the suggestions require modding the rod, or activating it from range. The first is easy to resolve: it's a magic item, don't allow modifications, that's where the 3.X crafting system was broken. The second is less easy to resolve, since you could potentially activate it with a mage-hand, but otherwise it's not remote-controlled. You have to push a physical button on the Rod itsself.

So quite frankly I'm just not seeing the terror in two immovable rods.

I don't see it either, but you could scale thin are using two rods as mooring pins (I think it's called, I'm not a rock climber), although at about 6 seconds to move a rod...

 

[Lanliss]

I don't see it either, but you could scale thin are using two rods as mooring pins (I think it's called, I'm not a rock climber), although at about 6 seconds to move a rod...

I can think of a ton of creative ways to use immovable rods. All situational, but good ways to skip things. I can definitely see how one could abuse a single immovable rod, let alone two of them.