Imbue with Spells & scrolls

[Darklone]

Friend of mine asked this on the Kalamar boards already... and didn't get many answers except mine.

How would you handle it? I am evil and ruled that the spell slot is occupied till the spells are used...

 

[Hypersmurf]

How would you handle it? I am evil and ruled that the spell slot is occupied till the spells are used...

Well, as you highlighted, it's only when the spell is cast that the slot is unavailable. Creating a scroll does not involve casting a spell, only losing a prepared spell.

However... if I have three 4th level slots and a scroll of Imbue with Spell Ability, then in a way, I can cast four 4th level spells. But once I read the scroll, "the number of 4th level spells I can cast decreases". Now, technically, the number of active Imbue with Spell Ability spells is still less than the numbe of 4th level spells I can cast, so I could be, by one reading of the spell, still okay.

But if I use several such scrolls - or if I cast a couple of 4th level spells - so that the number of Imbue spells becomes larger than the number of 4th level spells I can cast, then the Imbues start being dispelled.

Given that... it seems to me to make sense that casting Imbue from a scroll would require a sacrifice of a prepared 4th level slot. If you've used all your 4th level spells for the day, you can read the scroll... but the Imbue would immediately be dispelled, since the number of active Imbues (one) is greater than the number of 4th level spells you can cast (none left).

-Hyp.

 

[Darklone]

Now my head starts to ache. So you would let the cleric use the 4th level spell slot after he created the scroll?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Now my head starts to ache. So you would let the cleric use the 4th level spell slot after he created the scroll?

Yes, certainly. After he'd created a dozen scrolls. A spell sitting quiescent on a scroll is not an "active Imbue with Spell Ability".

The person who casts the spell is the person who activates it from the scroll.

And I would require that person to 'power' it with a 4th level spell slot.

If a Rogue activates the scroll with Use Magic Device: he has more active Imbues than he can cast 4th level spells, so the Imbue is automatically dispelled.

Likewise if a Clr2 reads the scroll.

If a Clr7 activates the scroll, I would require him to 'give up' his prepared Divine Power, or Inflict Critical Wounds, or some other 4th level spell, to power the Imbue. No 4th level slots left? Imbue dies.

It could be lawyered that he doesn't need to give up a slot, and that he can cast as many Imbues from scrolls as he has 4th level slots available, even though he's not giving those slots up for the Imbues, but for consistency, I'd house-rule the slot-battery idea in.

-Hyp.

 

[Vahktang]

Hey Hypersmurf,

I'm the one with the other board and take exceptions to your answers.
Some contentions and clarifications, please.

Creating a scroll does not involve casting a spell, only losing a prepared spell.

So, every time I put a spell to scroll I lose a slot?
Then what are the xp's for?
Hey, I've been wrong before but my understanding is that once it's on the scroll and you've paid the XP's, it's independant.
That's why you can use a scroll when you are attacked in that 8 hour period before you redo your spells and not lose the slot, as you would if you did it without a device.

Is this how all the scroll spells are played?
Like a slot substitution, rather than an independent magic item?

More later,

Vahktang

 

[Hypersmurf]

So, every time I put a spell to scroll I lose a slot?

You're misinterpreting there.

Forget Imbue with Spell Ability for the moment; let's say I want to make a Scroll of Magic Missile.

I have to prepare Magic Missile in a first level slot. I don't actually cast Magic Missile, but that spell is 'used' in the creation of the scroll. It's no longer a prepared spell. The slot is 'used'... but the next day I can prepare a spell in it as normal.

Similarly, when I create a scroll of Imbue with Spell Ability, I have to prepare the spell, and it is 'used'... but it is not cast, and thus the things that will happen when I cast Imbue with Spell Ability are irrelevant.

They only apply to the person who actually uses the scroll.

-Hyp.

 

[Darklone]

Aye... so someone who casts it "loses" a 4th level slot as well as the low level slots till they are spent ?

And if he does not have these slots, the scroll is wasted?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Aye... so someone who casts it "loses" a 4th level slot as well as the low level slots till they are spent ?

And if he does not have these slots, the scroll is wasted?

Like I say - that's how I'd run it, because it's consistent... and if you try and actually run it exactly as written, it gets fairly complicated working out whether the Imbue takes effect or not.

It's strictly speaking a house rule... because the rules in this situation are lacking, and don't quite handle things coherently.

-Hyp.