Imp Init for rogues?

[tensen]

Ok, I've seen it written nearly a million times now, but I still don't see why Improved Initiative is such a "must have" for rogues. I understand you're trying for that suprise round sneak attack, but does it really come up where you can close to within 30' for a ranged sneak attack?

I don't find it a must have. However many people like to play an untrafast character. Thrown weapons masters with quick draw will find improved initiative important for a roleplaying purpose.

 

[jmucchiello]

I habitually roll a 2 on initiative for my character so I never take it.

When I DM I usually roll in the teens. Haven't figured this out yet.

 

[Kalendraf]

In my campaign, most of the characters take Improved Init and for good reason. Time and time again, the nature of battle is usually determined by who goes first. If the party has enough PCs going first, they are almost always victorious and often take very little damage. If the enemies go first, then there's usually a lot more damage inflicted by the enemies (spells, special attacks, etc). The only characters right now that don't have Improved Init are the divine casters (cleric & druid) and that's mostly a side effect of those characters being non-human and having so few feats to spend. For them crafting or other options are more important at this point in their careers.

Is Improved Init a must-have for any character? No. However, when compared to many other feats, Improved Init is simply the best option. Even with an already high dex, it is still a good feat to take, helping further guarantee you'll go first, or at least act before a majority of mixed foes can. For a rogue, sneak attack is the uber ability, and going first means you can use it that much more often. Hence, improved init is a good feat for rogues to take, and it's often hard to find any other feat that is better.

 

[Kodam]

Retreat

Hi!

I'd like to add one more reason for the rogue to take Imp Init: to be able to retreat when in trouble. Not the most heroic of actions, but still a lot better than dead!

I think that Imp Init also is extremly valuable for casters, especially wizards and sorcerers. It gives them a greater chance to get their area spells off before the melee beginns and makes this difficult.

In general going first means standing last.

Kodam

 

[morbiczer]

Hi!

I'd like to add one more reason for the rogue to take Imp Init: to be able to retreat when in trouble. Not the most heroic of actions, but still a lot better than dead!
Kodam

I wanted to write the same thing. Rogues will often be the ones scouting ahead of the party. If they discover some hidden foe and it comes to rolling initiative, Imp Init helps a lot in winnig the roll so that they can start to retreat befora they get hit.

 

[Taren Seeker]

I'd be willing to bet that more Rogues have died from having Improved Init than from any other single source.

"24! I win init! I move in, Attack! Hah eat sneak! Wait what do you mean he didn't die...and the rest of my party is going on 11 or lower? Oh crap."

I'd say it's worth it for some casters or missile specialists and that's about it.

 

[Axegrrl]

That's not dying because you have imp. init, that's dying because you're not using good sense by not paying attention to what init the other party members act on and thus using good tactics.

Even with an init bonus of +11, I can still roll an 11 and go after the party fighter who rolls a 20 with an init bonus of +3.

I think imp init works best when you have the other feats and abilities to support it.
One example:
Imp Init = win init
Move into position: no AoO, with opponents all flat-footed
Sneak attack
Spring Attack = move out of danger position

 

[reveal]

I think Improved Init is something every character should have. The biggest reason is it opens up combat options for almost every character. Remember, until a combatants initiative comes up, they are considered flat-footed. So the rogue gets his/her sneak attack, the spellcaster has more opportunities to hit a person with a spell, the fighter has a better chance at beating a person's AC, etc.

 

[Taren Seeker]

No, more often it's not knowing when the opponents act.

There are a lot of desireable feats out there for rogues and Imp Init doesn't even blip on my radar. If you are a hybrid Rog/Fighter with a lot of feats then I could see it, but otherwise there are much better options.

I've seen at least 3 or 4 Rogue deaths that roughly followed my little made up quote. I've seen many more near death experiences. Akso, many Rogue players have the unfortunate tendency to assume that anything they can get a full round of sneaks on would most likely be dead by the end of it.

 

[Tonguez]

I take improved init as my first feat for EVERY character I play.

Improved Init for me is about options - if I can take an action before the enemy forces me to engage then I have an advantage

and remember it your character doesn't have to attack - being the first one able to run away and hide is also beneficial (especially since I love playing gnomes)- you know the old "I don't have to outrun the troll, I just have to out run you!"