Imp Init for rogues?

Improved Init is not something that either every character or every rogue should have.

However, it is something that every character will find useful. The bonus will apply in every combat and, while it may not make a big difference for armored knights, it will still make some difference and is often quite helpful for spellcasters and rogues.

For spellcasters, it is useful because it enables them to shape the battlefield before any of their enemies move--or, more often (given that monsters often have Imp Init and often at least one will roll well), before the majority of their enemies move. A Solid Fog spell or a Wall of Force is much more useful when you can catch all of your foes than when you can only catch a some of them. Etc.

For rogues, being able to go first is helpful for the reasons listed above. However, given the prevalence of Improved Initiative among their foes, it is also necessary to ensure that they have a good chance of beating any foe they face. Having +10 instead of +6 to initiative may only mean that you win 86% of initiative rolls instead of 73% of them against full-plate wearing fighters with a 10 dex. However, it means you win 66% of rolls against a fighter with a 14 dex and improved initiative instead of roughly 50%. So it gives you a significant advantage over your fast foes and gives you a smaller but still noticable advantage against your weaker foes.

Another way to look at it is that it minimizes the chance that you WON'T be able to get initiative. Without Imp Init, you'll lose to the tank more than one out of four times. With Imp Init, you'll lose less than one time out of seven. That's a noticable difference.
 
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I always have Rogues take Improved Initiative. I also usually make sure they have a ranged weapon in hand when in unfriendly territory. That way, charging in and getting surrounded and cut off is not an issue...

Still, how useful it is depends heavily on how your DM runs encounters - in most games, the above is a useful tactic, but I'm playing in a game right now where most outdoor encounters start with the enemies far enough away that sneak attack is not an issue.
 

If you're not a rogue, one good reason to take Improved Initiative is to avoid getting caught flat-footed by a rogue. If you are a rogue, one good reason to take is to re-level the playing field on those guys I mentioned in the first sentence so you can catch 'em flat-footed.
 

Taren Seeker said:
I've seen at least 3 or 4 Rogue deaths that roughly followed my little made up quote. I've seen many more near death experiences. Akso, many Rogue players have the unfortunate tendency to assume that anything they can get a full round of sneaks on would most likely be dead by the end of it.

I've had that happen. In my case, it was due to having crappy ranged weapons available. And a lack of sneak-attackable opponents.

Brad
 

I generally don't take Improved Initiative. Probably because I never play rogues...

The one time I did play a rogue, I had Improved Initiative. True, I often went first in battle...then preceded to do nothing. (I had no spells to cast and I didn't want to be within 30 ft. of an EL 13 encounter as a rogue.)

So my rogue left the party...and I changed to a cleric.

A cleric I am still playing, I might add. And he doesn't have Improved Initiative.
 


Thanee said:
My cleric had improved initiative. :D

Granted she was also a rogue and had the time domain, but still... ;)

Bye
Thanee


My cleric doesn't have room for improved initiative.

h empower spell
1 spellcasting prodigy
3 SF necromancy
6 GSF necromancy
9 SP
12 GSP
15 spell girding





Rogue and cleric? You can do that? :)

Might as well play a bard with a dagger...
.
.
.
Time domain 3.0 or 3.5?
 


Thanee said:
3.0

That's quite possibly the most powerful D&D character I have played.

CLICK

Bye
Thanee

Cool character. Bow clerics rock. (I have seen more clerics of Labelas Enoreth than any other elven diety. He's pretty stinking popular.) :)

No beads of karma.

Dispel magic. Worst enemy of clerics ever. Ring of counterspelling pretty good. Speech degenerated into phrases.
 

Yeah, never got a bead of karma, altho I tried to find one (we don't play that all items are easily available (there's a chance, tho) and no item creation for PCs beyond class abilities). :)

Dispel Magic isn't so bad with caster level 13 (Create Magic Tattoo) anymore, only the greater version, hence the Ring of Counterspells.

This was the only cleric of Labelas Enoreth in all our campaigns and the concept just fit perfectly with that one. We had plenty clerics of various gods, some of them elves (i.e. Sehanine Moonbow very cool elven deity also).

Bye
Thanee
 
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