Imp Init for rogues?

[Jeb McDonald]

One situational drawback to having the rogue taking Improved Initiative--

Surprise round--partial charge, sneak attack
Round one--win initiative, multiple sneak attacks
Remainder of round one--all of the other baddies you didn't kill take 5' steps and slaughter the rogue before the goodguy (or goodgirl) fighters even get to combat.

The rogues we play with normally take other feats and get sneak attacks set up by flanking instead of beating the opponent to the punch through initiative.

 

[Thanee]

Improved Initiative is more important for archery-based rogues than those that get into melee. They can delay for flanking opportunities also, archers can't do that.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Crass]

No, more often it's not knowing when the opponents act.

There are a lot of desireable feats out there for rogues and Imp Init doesn't even blip on my radar. If you are a hybrid Rog/Fighter with a lot of feats then I could see it, but otherwise there are much better options.

I've seen at least 3 or 4 Rogue deaths that roughly followed my little made up quote. I've seen many more near death experiences. Akso, many Rogue players have the unfortunate tendency to assume that anything they can get a full round of sneaks on would most likely be dead by the end of it.

I tend to agree that it can be a rogue-killing feat if used poorly - particularly when facing characters who have combat reflexes and reach weapons... Which is another reason, when I play a rogue, I take weapon proficiency in Glaive, along with combat reflexes (and, sometimes, quickdraw). I prefer to let others - tanks especially - go toe-to-toe, and then flank for sneak. And with a reach weapon, get multiple opportunities to flank.

 

[diaglo]

Diaglo, I'll assume you weren't trying to be funny and reply in all seriousness.

of course i was serious.

skill focus in the 2000ed was weak. it got a little boost for 3.11ed for Workgroups but still lacks what improv init provides.

an improved feat like you mention is fine. however, all the other improved feats have prereqs.

the other broken feat from 2000ed is spellcasting prodigy. although, many campaigns don't allow it, since it is a noncore feat.

fortunately it has/got a fix.

 

[diaglo]

with improv init.

bard wins init... sings... bonus to attack, damage for all allies

barb wins init... rages

cleric wins init... casts buff spell or turns undead

druid wins init... assumes animal form

etc...

all those pre buffing things can now happen in combat by the winner of init. so it takes care of the nerf that 3.11ed for workgroups added to buff.

 

[4everdm]

....I understand that it can't hurt, but with the few feats a rogue gets, it just doesn't seem worth it to use one on Imp Init.

Convince me otherwise!

Imp Intit is also extremely important even if you don't want to attack & get the sneak attack - let's face it you're a rogue of the party for a reason your skills are needed else where. You go first, you're not caught flat flooted, you're facing a mean group of baddies, what do you do - Hide, Move Silently, get into position, look for traps and assist in any way you can . Just cause you go first doesn't mean you have to attack first.
If you always have Intitative and make it your business to always attack first you're kind of put a bullseye on your back saying, "Yea, that's right I took out X number of baddies!" And don't all us DMs enjoy attacking the strongest party member first.
Think about this, in an ongoing campaign, where the main villian is "monitoring" the exploits of the heroes, wouldn't the villian be concerned that the fast moving, always attacking rogue is doing significant damage, thus needing to take the rogue out of the equation first?

 

[Darklone]

bard wins init... sings... bonus to attack, damage for all allies

After one round? Oops, this has been changed in 3.5? Duh...