Implications of a race of hermaphrodites?
- Thread starter Tsyr
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I noticed. I'll have my right of reply to the peanut gallery when they're being patronising and arrogant or pinning straw men on me.
You're not a moderator, leave the policing to them. Why? They're a bit less one-eyed than you - I don't see you reminding fusangite or Kahuna Burger to drop it after Dinkeldog's post, do I?
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Well, this is getting insulting.
Rounser, here's the deal:
You are conflating reproduction rates (ie. birth rate / infant mortality rate) with species survival. That doesn't make sense to a lot of us.
In what non-reproductive/child rearing ways do you believe men and women are specialists? I don't see our species as heavily specialized on the basis of gender beyond reproduction and family life. That's not to say there are no correlations between sex and gender but I fail to see how these general correlations would indicate we are so specialized that it would make a serious difference in the natural selection process.
Also, to provide a counter-example, what if the main problem a species faced was incredibly sparse distribution where members of the species were often solitary and rarely congregated in groups larger than four? Wouldn't natural selection favour hermaphrodites in such a situation?
Rounser, here's the deal:
You are conflating reproduction rates (ie. birth rate / infant mortality rate) with species survival. That doesn't make sense to a lot of us.
In what non-reproductive/child rearing ways do you believe men and women are specialists? I don't see our species as heavily specialized on the basis of gender beyond reproduction and family life. That's not to say there are no correlations between sex and gender but I fail to see how these general correlations would indicate we are so specialized that it would make a serious difference in the natural selection process.
Also, to provide a counter-example, what if the main problem a species faced was incredibly sparse distribution where members of the species were often solitary and rarely congregated in groups larger than four? Wouldn't natural selection favour hermaphrodites in such a situation?
No I'm not; I've said NOTHING about species survival. I'm saying that when hermaphrodites have to compete with males and females, they quickly get shown the genetic door. For those armchair evolutionary theorists out there, this is a very different kettle of fish to suboptimal, not-the-best-design-but-just-good-enough-to-ensure survival traits, which might not ever get weeded out.
You clearly don't even have a clear grasp on what I'm arguing, even after reading the theory on organelles, which is just one reason why we don't have hermaphrodites; let it drop.
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rounser - I am not being one-eyed. I asked you to stop because you were the one showing the signs of frustration. Plus, since you comprise the entirety of one side of the argument, if you agreed the discussion would certainly stop. I thought it might speak well of us if we could police ourselves, rather than force a moderator to impose peace.
fusangite - I honestly thought you'd be wise enough to take the hint when I asked rounser to drop it. Please resist the urge to get the last word. Drop it, so that maybe Tsyr can still get some value out of the thread.
fusangite - I honestly thought you'd be wise enough to take the hint when I asked rounser to drop it. Please resist the urge to get the last word. Drop it, so that maybe Tsyr can still get some value out of the thread.
It's not your place to do so. And that is a very weak excuse - moderation is not only for "those who show signs of frustration". Face it, you're biased, you're out of line, you're ignoring those who are on your side, and you've been called on it. Get off that high horse, now.
If the heckling stops, which includes you playing pseudo-moderator, the chances of that happening would improve dramatically.
Start by looking after your own backyard; don't post again, and don't do the mod's jobs for them.
Maybe you should ask him directly then, instead of indulging in one-sided hypocrisy.
AuroraGyps
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I skimmed most of the posts, but didn't read all of them, so I don't know if anyone else has come up with what I'm thinking... but I'll just add my 2 cents.
Regarding if a race could be both male & female: most of the posts talk about human biology, but the race we're developing is one of Elves in a magical realm. So, why can't these elves have some extra organ or gland or whatever that makes having male and female reproductive organs feasible.
Regarding how a hermaphroditic race would deal with "gender" roles:I believe most times when a hermaphrodite is born, the doctors will tell the parents to "pick" a gender or suggest to the parents that the infant would be better off as a boy/girl because of certain physical attributes. But sometimes, even after being "designated" a gender, even with surgery and/or being treated as one gender, the person feels like the opposite. But when a elf of from this group is born, having both genitalia is normal and they'd be treated just as children. They'd all play with all types of things (ex: toy swords AND dolls) and be taught about both "male" and "female" roles. Maybe the hermaphroditic race would be like people who are trangendered (people that feel they were born the wrong gender), but do not have to deal with surgery to physically change themselves. Or maybe the race would have some people who feel more "male", some that a feel more "female", and some that feel both or "bi".
Anyways, there's some of my ramblings. This is a really interesting topic and I really hope nothing happens to shut it down. Good luck Tsyr and to your friend on making a very unique and different race.
Regarding if a race could be both male & female: most of the posts talk about human biology, but the race we're developing is one of Elves in a magical realm. So, why can't these elves have some extra organ or gland or whatever that makes having male and female reproductive organs feasible.
Regarding how a hermaphroditic race would deal with "gender" roles:I believe most times when a hermaphrodite is born, the doctors will tell the parents to "pick" a gender or suggest to the parents that the infant would be better off as a boy/girl because of certain physical attributes. But sometimes, even after being "designated" a gender, even with surgery and/or being treated as one gender, the person feels like the opposite. But when a elf of from this group is born, having both genitalia is normal and they'd be treated just as children. They'd all play with all types of things (ex: toy swords AND dolls) and be taught about both "male" and "female" roles. Maybe the hermaphroditic race would be like people who are trangendered (people that feel they were born the wrong gender), but do not have to deal with surgery to physically change themselves. Or maybe the race would have some people who feel more "male", some that a feel more "female", and some that feel both or "bi".
Anyways, there's some of my ramblings. This is a really interesting topic and I really hope nothing happens to shut it down. Good luck Tsyr and to your friend on making a very unique and different race.
Dr. Strangemonkey
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Wayside said:
I agree, I would hate what looked to have been an interesting thread go the way of so many threads on the behavior of Paladins. A sad spectable that I myself have unfortunately contributed to in the past.
Particularly since there don't seem to be any substantive new points, aside from the number of nice bibliography of works that is slowly accumulating.
I would like to see some more theories on how a hermaphroditic elven race, given that there is one, would organize themselves.
Particularly in light of rounser's assertion that they would need an array of other advantages in order to compete effectively.
I think it's interesting that we have seen a lot of posts on how the race would pick genders. If they are a small minority I would think that there would be a tendency to experiment or switch genders in order to maximize the possibility of certain traits being advantageous to one or more specializations. Of course, this period of gender choosing might be historical within the society as opposed to the individual. If they see that certain commonly occuring traits are advantageous to one of their genders they may automatically shunt individuals who manifest it into that gender.
They might even construct the make-up of certain genders in their community in order to distribute talents according to either percieved specialized need or to create homogenized talent portfolios in all of their genders.
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