Improve DC for Wujen/Loremaster spells

[grandpappy]

My fiance is playing a 7 WuJen / 5 Loremaster, and really loves the flavor of the class and the spells.

The problem is that we're typically fighting Aberations and Undead, or other things that have high saving throws and/or poison immunity.

What can be done to up the DC on her spells? She's already got a spell focus on one of her schools. And will take the improved version for her 12th level feat (which we just got).

I'm playing an Atrificer (with a massive influx of craft reserve and gold), so I can make something that could help boost the saves. But I can't find anything that actually does this.

So my question is this: What items or feats can we get that will increase the save DCs for her spells?

 

[akbearfoot]

Headband of intellect?

At 12th level if you craft it yourself you can probably make the +6 version. thats +3 DC right there and several Bonus spells.




I don't really know much about wu-jen though, other than i know they have fairly limited spell selections. And I remember the still/silent spell bit.


Undead and abberations are pretty much in the game to provide special challenges to the PCs...They are supposed to be hard to kill with 1 spell. If you get a headband of intellect and take spell focus/greater spell focus, you're pretty much golden on spell DCs. Doesen't get a lot better without using 3rd party sources..or things that weren't reprinted in 3.5

 

[UltimaGabe]

Although this isn't exactly answering your question (and I apologize for that), I must say, their first mistake is playing a Wu Jen. The Wu Jen has amazing flavor, like you said- I even played one myself because of it- but their spells are horrendous. They get half of the Wizards' spells, plus the other half two levels later. And sometimes they overlap. (Like, Wu Jen will get transportation spells that don't work nearly as well as dimension door, several levels AFTER getting dimension door.) So many of their spells are poorly thought-out, and poorly explained, and just plain weak- because, in their original setting, all spellcasters were weaker than in normal D&D. So when they cut & pasted the spells over (complete with terms and errors and everything) to 3.5, they put it right alongside the (much more powerful) Wizard spells, and expected everything to even out. But you just end up with a weaker Wizard with nice flavor.

I suggest, for you or anyone else who decides to play a Wu Jen in the future, to just play a Wizard, with the Wu Jen concept. Describe your spells with an oriental flair to them, maybe even take a few spells here and there (specific ones you can't live without) and House Rule them to either be a lower level, or just flat out more powerful, so as to be in line with spells of their level. It's a shame what happened to the Wu Jen. I always develop a small tear every time I hear someone made a Wu Jen, because they're just so unnecessarily gimped.

Poor Wu Jen.

 

[grandpappy]

I completely agree with you on the WuJen power level. It's a shame. However, she loves the flavor, and isn't a power player.

For her, I'm not too worried about the power of her spells, but it would be nice for them to WORK. And right now, that's the problem. All too often the spells fail because of a DC check, and then have no benefit and she feels like she's not contributing.

Part of this is the predominance of "save-or-suck" spells. Either they fail the save and something cool happens to them, or they make the save and zippo.

She used to play a sorceress who was primarily a blaster type (Elfaba from the musical Wicked - the wicked witch of the west).

After UltimaGabe's post, I might create a house-ruled class something like the WuJen, but sorcereses based (she likes that spellcasting more than the spellbook) with the secrets. It'll probably lose a spell-slot to make up for this. I don't know if she'll be interested in that at all.

Any other ideas on how to improve her current character's chances of landing spells? Is the Heighten metamagic feat worth it?

 

[UltimaGabe]

Any other ideas on how to improve her current character's chances of landing spells? Is the Heighten metamagic feat worth it?

Since I simply ranted with my last post, I might as well add something with this one.

I don't think Heighten Spell is worth it (in my opinion, anyway), and there's only so much you can do to beef up DCs beyond increasing the stat and taking Spell Focus and such. Of course an obvious option is to use spells that don't allow saves (or still have some effect if the save suceeds, like most direct damage spells), but my suggestion (as enemies making DCs seems to be the bane of all spellcasters, not just Wu Jen) is to try to do other things to lower an enemy's saves. Touch of Idiocy is great for this, though I don't recall offhand if that's a Wu Jen spell. If not, an item that allows its use a couple times a day or so could be helpful. It's a touch attack that reduces the target's Int, Wis, and Cha by 1d6 points, which is great for reducing the target's Will save (as the spell itself doesn't allow a save). I recall there being a few obscure low-level spells here and there in various recent books that apply penalties to Dex and so on, which could hurt Reflex saves. Although it requires a save itself, a Cleric could cast Bestow Curse on an enemy, and if it succeeds, use it to lower the target's Con, Wis, or Dex by 6, thus reducing their relevant save by 3. (I can't seem to remember if Wu Jen get Bestow Curse. I know Wizards do, but it's been so long since I've looked at the Wu Jen spell list.)

I know there's got to be others along this line; I suggest checking out books like the Spell Compendium for spells that will help.

 

[Quartz]

How about she turn to spells that buff her companions? Or spells that channel the opponents like Wall of Force?

 

[grandpappy]

Can I stack ability bonuses from gear? So make the headband of intellect, then the +2 intelligence Ioun stone?

I read through her character sheet last night and noticed that she's got a dragon for a familiar. I had forgotten about that. Perhaps I can make a wand for the dragon to use...

 

[Quartz]

Yes, bonuses of different type stack. So you can make yourself a headband of Intellect +6 Enhancement, then a necklace of Intellect +6 Insight...

 

[UltimaGabe]

Yes, bonuses of different type stack. So you can make yourself a headband of Intellect +6 Enhancement, then a necklace of Intellect +6 Insight...

...No offense, but that is a HORRIBLE idea. Not only are there no guidelines on how to do that, there's a reason why you aren't supposed to be able to make multiple items like that. How would the game be improved if suddenly everybody had +36 to their relevant stats? (+6 Enhancement, +6 Insight, +6 Competence, +6 Sacred, +6 Profane, +6 Inherent...) Believe me, trying to get around the limits is a BAD idea.

Anyway, in case it wasn't clear, a +6 Headband of Intellect and a +2 Ioun Stone of Intellect do not stack. They're both enhancement bonuses.

 

[grandpappy]

Oh well.

Though a +4 to save DCs isn't bad (from the feat and the +6 int). For some reason I had not through of using spells to reduce their saves.

She's got a dragon for a familiar (took 2 feats to do it), so I can craft a wand for the dragon and just have it use that spell.

Thanks for all the input guys.