Improved Buckler Use feat?

[Tetsubo]

There is a simple solution to the Buckler and two-handed weapon issue: Make bucklers a hand held defense item, just like they are in the real world. Bucklers are not strapped to your arm, they are held in your off hand. Simple.

 

[Darklone]

Isn't one of the balancing factors of Two-Weapon Fighting is the inability to use a shield--same as with Two-Handed fighting.

IMO, if you can use IBD whild two-weapon fighting with a double weapon, then you can use IBD with Two-Handed fighting. You are using your off hand either way.

TWF does not need balancing. It needs a power up.

 

[AnonymousOne]

(I just made a thread in House Rules as this post seemed a bit off-topic)

 

[saucercrab]

Oh come on now. The feat says:

"You can attack with an off-hand weapon while retaining a buckler’s shield bonus to your Armor Class."

It's obviously only supposed to apply when using two weapons. Using a two-handed weapon does not involve an "off-hand" at all. It involves two hands.

Really, are there really players out there who try to pull this kind of crap and mangle the rules like this?

The buckler description itself (PHB, page 124) states, "You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a -1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so because of the extra weight on your arm."

 

[Wolfspider]

The buckler description itself (PHB, page 124) states, "You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a -1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so because of the extra weight on your arm."

Yes. You yourself point out the two situations where bucklers can be used with weapons: "while using an off-hand weapon" (two weapon fighting) or "while using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon" (two handed weapon fighting). The feat applies to attacking "with an off-hand weapon," the same term that is used in the buckler description and the feat description.

Perfectly clear to me.

 

[Diirk]

Yes. You yourself point out the two situations where bucklers can be used with weapons: "while using an off-hand weapon" (two weapon fighting) or "while using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon" (two handed weapon fighting). The feat applies to attacking "with an off-hand weapon," the same term that is used in the buckler description and the feat description.

Actually, not quite. The rules text (ie. not flavour text) in the 'Benefit:' section of Improved Buckler Defense says "When you attack with a weapon in your off hand, you may still apply your buckler's shield bonus to your Armour Class."

In comparison, the buckler description states "You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a -1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you don’t get the buckler’s AC bonus for the rest of the round."

Now, I can understand interpreting it the way you do, however to me it looks like the buckler description is implying that using a two handed weapon qualifies as "a weapon in the off hand", which meets the criteria for the rules text portion of Improved Buckler Defense.

To make sure I wasn't just biased because it looked like a pretty nice feat, I showed the 2 passages to my DM and asked for his decision without making any comments on the matter to influence him. He also thought it should work with 2 handed weapons.

(In the end I decided not to take it tho; I ran out of feats :\ )

 

[GorTeX]

So either way, you can use the AC from a buckler with a two-handed weapon.

1) If you rule that wielding a 2-handed weapon counts as using an 'off-hand weapon', then the IBD feat will allow you to keep the AC bonus

2) If you rule that wielding a 2-handed weapon does not count as using an 'off-hand weapon', then the IBD isn't even needed, since you only loose the AC bonus when you use a weapon in your off hand.

(no matter what tho, you will be taking a -1 to hit..)

Also, wouldn't the light Shield adequately model the 'historical' use of a Buckler...same AC bonus..wielded in your hand...can bash with it... So what if it is not called a Buckler in D&D