D&D 5E (2014) Improved Find Familiar

[thalmin]

I would not allow it if another player was a warlock. As for overall balance, I think having the wizard attuned to an imp or such would work. And the higher level familiar could always still break the bond, just like with the warlock

 

[Paraxis]

It also specifically says under the Warlocks Path of the Chain entree that they are able to use more able familiars, while not listing the same under the Find Familiar spell. It is treading on the shoes of the Warlock, and stealing a key feature from one of it’s pacts which is beyond the remit of the rules as they stand.

And using a familiar effectively is not quite the same thing as abusing it!

It is the rules in the MM that call allow for other spellcasters to bond with some of the special familiars. Variant rules, for the DM to decide to use and how but they are there. No player should expect his wizard to gain an imp familiar, but having the possibility as an option is not a bad thing.

Using a familiar in a way that could lead to it's death is part of the whole find familiar spell and following the casters orders is mandatory, so forced servitude of an intelligent creature that risks it's life is questionable. Now the spell allows for the familiars summoned with it to be resummoned if killed, so that makes it a little less horrible. A found and bonded free range special familiar like we are talking about is under no obligation to follow every command but also doesn't come back to life if it dies, so the social dynamic between the familiar and spellcaster is different.

 

[TrippyHippy]

It is the rules in the MM that call allow for other spellcasters to bond with some of the special familiars. Variant rules, for the DM to decide to use and how but they are there. No player should expect his wizard to gain an imp familiar, but having the possibility as an option is not a bad thing.

Using a familiar in a way that could lead to it's death is part of the whole find familiar spell and following the casters orders is mandatory, so forced servitude of an intelligent creature that risks it's life is questionable. Now the spell allows for the familiars summoned with it to be resummoned if killed, so that makes it a little less horrible. A found and bonded free range special familiar like we are talking about is under no obligation to follow every command but also doesn't come back to life if it dies, so the social dynamic between the familiar and spellcaster is different.

No it doesn’t. The MM simply refers to ‘spellcasters’ without referring to which ones. There are no rules in the MM that aren’t referred to already the Player’s handbook (telepathic link etc), and no explicit rules in any book to determine that Wizards, Sorcerers, Bards, Druids or Clerics can have links to these types of Familiar. And there are no rules for part time Familiars either - if they aren’t spiritually linked (as detailed in the Find Familiar rules) then they aren’t really familiars.

Wizards and other non-Warlock casters have no means to summon them or make a magical bond beyond DM-fiat (which isn’t any official rule). The only Class that explicitly allows for these types of Familiar is the Warlock. And it is a bad thing if other Classes start stealing features that are meant to be exclusive to Warlocks.

 

[Paraxis]

From the MM entry on Pseudodragons, pg 254.

Draconic Familiars.
Mages often seek out pseudodragons, whose agreeable disposition, telepathic ability, and resistance to magic make them superior familiars. Pseudodragons are selective when it comes to choosing companions, but they can sometimes be won over with gifts of food or treasure. When a pseudodragon finds an agreeable companion, it bonds with that person as long as it is treated fairly. Pseudodragon puts up with no ill treatment, and it abandons a manipulative or abusive companion without warning.

VARIANT: PSEUDODRAGON FAMILIAR
Some pseudodragons are willing to serve spellcasters as a familiar. Such pseudodragons have the
following trait.
Familiar.The pseudodragon can serve another creature as a familiar, forming a magic, telepathic bond with that willing companion. While the two are bonded, the companion can sense what the pseudodragon senses as long as they are within 1 mile of each other. While the pseudodragon is within 10 feet of its companion, the companion shares the pseudodragon's Magic Resistance trait. At any time and for any reason , the pseudodragon can end its service as a familiar, ending the telepathic bond.

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It talks about mage, spellcaster, or willing creature not once does it ever mention warlock.

This relationship is voluntary and the pseudodragon can break the bond at any time. It never mentions the find familiar spell at all, you don't summon the creature to you it chooses to bond with you. It is much more like the mage or other spellcaster finding a magic item than anything else.

A summoned pseudodragon through the find familiar spell is compelled to follow your commands.
"Your familiar acts independently of you, but it always obeys your commands." - pg 240 phb

A pseudodragon gained as a willing companion has free will and can break the bond when it chooses.

I see no issue except if there is a warlock with the chain pact in the party, then it might not be the greatest idea as it steps on his schtick.

 

[TrippyHippy]

It doesn’t mention Wizards either. Indeed, it specifies nothing that you mention at all. Saying ‘some Pseudodragons are willing to serve spell-casters’ does not automatically grant every PC spell-caster access to new powers. As much as anything else they are making mention of links to NPCs not PCs. A pseudodragon is not a creature that is summoned by the Find Familiar spell. You have interpreted those comments in the MM simply to have your cake and eat it.

The only class that details the possibility of summoning these types of familiar is the Warlock via it’s Pact of the Chain. It explicitly refers to these creatures - “Your familiar is more cunning than a typical familiar. It’s default form can be a reflection of your patron, with sprites and pseudo dragons tied to the Archfey and imps and quasits tied to the Fiend.”

The whole point of the Pact of the Chain is that you are getting a superior, exclusive familiar.

If you allow Pseudodragons as familiars for other Classes be aware that Find Familiar is a way too low level spell for bonding with such a potent creature and that you are effectively ruining the Warlock Class as a concept. They don’t have an extensive list of spells like other casters, or the exclusive features granted to those Classes. Wizards, Sorcerers don’t have the thematic ties to grant them access to these beings either - having sacrificed nothing to grant that degree of power. I wouldn’t allow it at all in my game.

 

[JoeCrow]

I wouldn't say you're ruining the Warlock as a class; you're just evaporating one of the three specialties. In my experience, chain-lock's the specialty that absolutely nobody ever takes. So there's no point in reserving the concept of more powerful familiars to a class specialty that's never gonna get played. And the pseudo-dragon familiar variant is a completely different critter from the summoned "pseudo-dragon" familiar. Summoned familiars are magical spirits that take the form of a specific critter in order to serve their summoner, where the enhanced familiar pseudo-dragon is an independent critter that works for a spellcaster as long as it feels like it. Summoned familiars have no choice.

 

[TrippyHippy]

I wouldn't say you're ruining the Warlock as a class; you're just evaporating one of the three specialties. In my experience, chain-lock's the specialty that absolutely nobody ever takes. So there's no point in reserving the concept of more powerful familiars to a class specialty that's never gonna get played. And the pseudo-dragon familiar variant is a completely different critter from the summoned "pseudo-dragon" familiar. Summoned familiars are magical spirits that take the form of a specific critter in order to serve their summoner, where the enhanced familiar pseudo-dragon is an independent critter that works for a spellcaster as long as it feels like it. Summoned familiars have no choice.

You’re experience is bunk. I play a Warlock of the Chain in my regular bye-weekly campaign, and there are plenty of people who do play those characters, regardless of your own experience. To me, it’s the best Warlock pact because the material presence of the Familiar really brings out the full roleplaying possibilities. Moreover, it’s not for you to decide what other people think is popular or not.

The rules in the Player’s Handbook are clear - these types of familiar are a Warlock only feature. The MM is for DM fiat alone, and doesn’t indicate that the PH book is wrong in anycase. People on this thread, as stated, are just trying to have their cake and eat it.

 

[JoeCrow]

To me, it’s the best Warlock pact because the material presence of the Familiar really brings out the full roleplaying possibilities.

But how's that different from any other caster with access to Find Familiar? The only bump chain-lock gets is that their familiar can be a pseudo-dragon, an imp, a quasit, or a sprite. And until this edition, every one of those options (except for the sprite) was available to wizards. So they've taken what was a default option for the base arcane spellcaster and restricted it to one facet of an uncommon class. I've got no objection to restoring the option for other casting classes, or for that matter, for folks with spellcasting feats. And in my opinion (and a fair amount of other folks, too) the chain-lock is seriously underpowered. If they want the chain-lock to be a real powerhouse, they should give it options for binding all kinds of critters to its will. And giving it the option to cast Hold Person at 15th doesn't cut it.

 

[HarrisonF]

But how's that different from any other caster with access to Find Familiar? The only bump chain-lock gets is that their familiar can be a pseudo-dragon, an imp, a quasit, or a sprite. And until this edition, every one of those options (except for the sprite) was available to wizards. So they've taken what was a default option for the base arcane spellcaster and restricted it to one facet of an uncommon class. I've got no objection to restoring the option for other casting classes, or for that matter, for folks with spellcasting feats. And in my opinion (and a fair amount of other folks, too) the chain-lock is seriously underpowered. If they want the chain-lock to be a real powerhouse, they should give it options for binding all kinds of critters to its will. And giving it the option to cast Hold Person at 15th doesn't cut it.

Voice of the Chain Master is a really, really good invocation to go with your flying, invisible familiar.

The infinite range of sharing senses makes it so much more useful as a scout. It goes from the animal intelligence ability to say there are some humanoids ahead to being able to perfectly identify what they are and formation they are in, heraldry they have, etc.... In addition, it doesn't take an action to share senses unlike with the base spell, so you can use an Imp to get the ability to see through darkness or pseudodragon to get blindsight.

Finally, it is basically a very fast communication method when you can send your familiar far away and you can talk and listen through it. It is almost as useful as an at-will sending spell.

I wasn't super impressed when I first read the Pact, but after I tried it, it really changed my mind. I've always known familiars were good and have used them effectively on many occasions. The special critter combined with the invocation really does it to another level.

 

[Ilbranteloth]

The rules in the Player’s Handbook are clear - these types of familiar are a Warlock only feature. The MM is for DM fiat alone, and doesn’t indicate that the PH book is wrong in anycase. People on this thread, as stated, are just trying to have their cake and eat it.

I have to go with the cake-eaters on this one.

In multiple places the variant rules specify 'spellcasters' not 'warlock.' The fact that this is consistent with earlier editions has an impact too (at least to me). If they wanted to limit it to the warlock only, they would have done so.

Note that on pg 347 of the MM there's another variant rule that specifies 'ANY spellcaster' that can cast the find familiar spell...can be one of the creatures described in the spell...or some other Tiny monster, such as a crawling claw, imp, pseudodragon, or quasit.

I find 'any spellcaster' to be of perfect clarity.

Plus there is nothing in the warlock description that excludes other spellcasters from gaining these familiars. And any character can take the Ritual Caster feat to gain the ability to cast find familiar.

I also find 'variant' to be of perfect clarity. You can call it what you want, but variant rules are decided by the group in my campaign, not just the DM. Having said that, if you were playing in my campaign and I knew that it was important to you, then I would vote (and encourage others to do so as well) so that only warlocks could gain these types of familiars.

I would also point out that the rules as written in the PHB says your familiar, as defined by the find familiar spell, allows your familiar to take a special form. It's not actually an imp, quasit, pseudodragon or sprite, but just a fey spirit taking that form. Of course, the rules are currently silent on exactly what that means...

Having said all this, the real advantage is that a warlock can have their familiar attack for them, whereas all other familiars (conjured using the spell, including special forms) can't.

A special familiar that is serving of its own free will as described in the variant rules in the MM under imp, quasit, and pseudodragon can attack as much as it chooses, and would not expend the spellcaster's action to do so.

Ilbranteloth