D&D 5E Improved Find Familiar

[Celtavian]

Well, the problem is that Pact of the Chain is seriously gimped. There's no reason that a regular wizard couldn't cast Find Familiar in a higher level slot to get a more powerful familiar, and there's no reason that a tome-pact warlock with Book of Ancient Secrets couldn't scribe Find Familiar, so by RAW, the chain-pact warlock is already surplus to requirements. Somebody should put together a table of familiar improvements for higher-slot castings. [Not it!]

Pact of the Chain should have done far more to boost familiars to make it worth taking. Familiars with 7 to 15 hit points aren't too helpful past the low levels. As a DM I kill them often because I feel higher level monsters don't allow small creatures to wander their lairs being well aware that such creatures are a danger.

 

[Celtavian]

It doesn’t mention Wizards either. Indeed, it specifies nothing that you mention at all. Saying ‘some Pseudodragons are willing to serve spell-casters’ does not automatically grant every PC spell-caster access to new powers. As much as anything else they are making mention of links to NPCs not PCs. A pseudodragon is not a creature that is summoned by the Find Familiar spell. You have interpreted those comments in the MM simply to have your cake and eat it.

The only class that details the possibility of summoning these types of familiar is the Warlock via it’s Pact of the Chain. It explicitly refers to these creatures - “Your familiar is more cunning than a typical familiar. It’s default form can be a reflection of your patron, with sprites and pseudo dragons tied to the Archfey and imps and quasits tied to the Fiend.”

The whole point of the Pact of the Chain is that you are getting a superior, exclusive familiar.

If you allow Pseudodragons as familiars for other Classes be aware that Find Familiar is a way too low level spell for bonding with such a potent creature and that you are effectively ruining the Warlock Class as a concept. They don’t have an extensive list of spells like other casters, or the exclusive features granted to those Classes. Wizards, Sorcerers don’t have the thematic ties to grant them access to these beings either - having sacrificed nothing to grant that degree of power. I wouldn’t allow it at all in my game.

If allowing a familiar like a pseudodragon or quasit for another class ruins the warlock class, that class was too weak to begin with.

 

[Celtavian]

You’re experience is bunk. I play a Warlock of the Chain in my regular bye-weekly campaign, and there are plenty of people who do play those characters, regardless of your own experience. To me, it’s the best Warlock pact because the material presence of the Familiar really brings out the full roleplaying possibilities. Moreover, it’s not for you to decide what other people think is popular or not.

The rules in the Player’s Handbook are clear - these types of familiar are a Warlock only feature. The MM is for DM fiat alone, and doesn’t indicate that the PH book is wrong in anycase. People on this thread, as stated, are just trying to have their cake and eat it.

Nowhere in the PHB or any other book does it say the DM can't give these familiars to other classes. You are completely incorrect.

If you're having fun role-playing something, it should not in anyway affect you if you someone else has a fun role-playing option. It's just role-play, right?

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

You are scraping the barrel if you are trying to design a PC character through sidebars made in reference to an NPC Mage in the MM. If it’s not in the Player’s Handbook, it’s not a rule specified for PCs.

I think you guys are talking past each other. I don't believe Ilbranteloth is talking about PC design at all the way the OP was. He's said over and over that he's talking about negotiations with a free-willed NPC creature, which is not PC design at all--it's something that happens onstage during play. The MM rule specifies what the NPC creature is able to do for you if you persuade it to. It's an NPC rule that affects (N)PCs when the NPC wants it to.

 

[Celtavian]

Weak, weak, weak arguments. The entire basis is that the term ‘spell-casters’ covers all PCs. The MM is about NPCs primarily and any decisions about rules therein is based solely on DM fiat. The rule cited on p347 is for a NPC Mage - not a Player Character. The Monster Manual isn’t about player characters and their options, and it isn’t designed to be a power gamer's haven either.

And there is a statement in the Warlock description of the Pact of the Chain that makes it clear that the familiar gained from the pact are superior to normal - as stated above - and refers to those types by name.

‘Earlier editions’ isn’t a valid argument. Most earlier editions didn’t have Warlocks.

Weak-weak-weak arguments. The DM can very much decide what he does or does not allow.

 

[Celtavian]

I think you guys are talking past each other. I don't believe Ilbranteloth is talking about PC design at all the way the OP was. He's said over and over that he's talking about negotiations with a free-willed NPC creature, which is not PC design at all--it's something that happens onstage during play. The MM rule specifies what the NPC creature is able to do for you if you persuade it to. It's an NPC rule that affects (N)PCs when the NPC wants it to.

I think Trippy wants to somehow prove that only warlocks can have special familiars. It is quite clear that the DM can allow another caster class to have a familiar such as quasit or pseudodragon. He can even have it bond via the find familiar spell. I do believe they made familiars as weak as they are so that the DM would not break the game by doing so.

Warlock pacts are more for flavor than power. It doesn't hurt the game to allow other classes to obtain a more interesting familiar.

The only part I agree with Trippy is I wouldn't allow a starting PC to take it without DM permission. A special familiar is something that should be earned by other spellcasters, if they really want one.

I do give the variant ability in the MM to Warlocks that have special familiars. I'm kind that way.

 

[Pollo Loco]

I have read the communication with a familiar as being similar to talking, but mentally (within limits, its a "free" action, not requiring use of the round's action), where the use of the familiar's senses, regardless of distance, does require the master to use his/her action.

EDIT: This was in response to an earlier post, I did not realize there were more posts between the one I was reading and the end of the chain...it is clearing referring to the earlier bit about the Chain Master invocation to extend communication to the entire plane, rather than the standing 100' (or w/e) range).

 

[the Jester]

It seems to me that if find familiar was balanced allowing for tougher creatures as familiars, it would've had that "At Higher Levels" entry so common to spells in 5e. Since it doesn't, my working assumption is that there is a reason for it. Am I sure what that reason is? No- but I'm comfortable trusting the designers to have spotted a good reason or two. So, no, I wouldn't allow this.

 

[Pollo Loco]

It seems to me that if find familiar was balanced allowing for tougher creatures as familiars, it would've had that "At Higher Levels" entry so common to spells in 5e. Since it doesn't, my working assumption is that there is a reason for it. Am I sure what that reason is? No- but I'm comfortable trusting the designers to have spotted a good reason or two. So, no, I wouldn't allow this.

Pretty much completely agree. Home games are, of course, the perfect place for exceptions, variations, and the like, and I would never be so arrogant as to try dictating how someone should run their home game. As I stated earlier though, I would be very hesitant to make such a drastic deviation from the RAW without a really compelling justification.

 

[Aenorgreen]

I think a psudodragon or imp gotten from negotiation would play very differently than the version you get with the find familiar spell. The former are the true creature, have free will, and are gone if they die. The latter are spirits that take the form, must follow commands, and can easily be gotten back if the are destroyed. That should make how they are used distinct from a summoned buddy.