Improved Grapple- Why Dex?

[Cthulhudrew]

I was going to make an NPC sumo type of wrestler the other day (basically, a big guy who isn't necessarily the quickest on his feet). Lo and behold, when I went to give him the Improved Grapple feat, I noticed that it had a minimum Dexterity requirement of 13!

Now, I guess I can see where this comes from (they figure the wrestler is adept at wiggling out of holds or something), but it seems a shame that my sumo-guy will have to either take 13 points of Dexterity (doesn't fit the concept) or else suffer Attacks of Opportunity when making Grapple attempts.

I'm thinking of ditching the Dex 13 requirement, or else making it a "Dex 13 *or* Strength 13" (using the rationale that you can also force your way out of a hold). I don't see any reason this would be unbalancing, but maybe someone with a better grasp of unarmed combat (or more experience running it) would have some insight?

 

[DanMcS]

Strength is already used in grappling, it's part of the grapple check. Dex 13 requirement for the feat doesn't mean he is good at escaping holds (a requirement for ranks in Escape Artist would mean that), it means he's agile enough to get in close without taking that AoO.

A first level monk can get Improved Grapple as a bonus feat, even if he doesn't have the Dex 13. You could build your sumo that way, monk 1/fighter X maybe.

 

[Zappo]

It reflects the concept that truly great wrestlers are strong AND agile. Otherwise, dexterity would be irrelevant for grappling, which isn't quite true.

 

[BSF]

Perhaps I am off-base here since I don't know too much about Sumo in general. But, isn't the point to get your opponent out of the circle? So, what about Improved Bull Rush?

 

[Sejs]

Sumo wrestling would be both a combination of short bull rushing, and grappling. Grapple with your opponent, and win the check, then move em toward the edge of the ring.


Anyway, yeah - dex is important in wrestling/grappling. Particularly the flexibility aspect of dex. If you arn't flexible, you can land in some real hurt.

 

[mmu1]

A sumo wrestler or any other skilled but heavy athlete is not necessarily represented well by someone with low Dex at all.

A better (if not RAW) way of handling a character like that is to simply assume that he's always considered to be at at least medium encumberance (while leaving his actual carrying capacity unchanged) which reduces his movement speed and affects all skills with an armor check penalty, but doesn't reduce his reflexes or hand-eye coordination.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

Interesting ideas- definitely some things I hadn't considered. The Improved Bull Rush feat is a good suggestion. Thanks, guys!