Improved Initiative: Balanced?

[Crothian]

Improved initiative as everyone knows gives +4 to all iniative rolls. Is this bonus to high?

There are four basic rolls that everyone makes involving the d20 and these rolls are all very common. Attack rolls, skill rolls, saving throw rolls, and initiative rolls. All get bonuses dependant on attributes. Attack Rolls and Saving throws go up automatically with level increases. Skills go up with level increases if the character decides they go up. The skills they use more, are usually the ones they increase the most. All of them can be increased with feats. Base attack can only be increased with weapon focus and that is only +1 for one weapon (Weapon Finesse can be used on some weapons to switch the attribute, so that also helps a little). Saving throws can be increased either all getting +1, or one getting +2. Skills can either get a +2 bonus from a single feat (Skill Focus), or two specific skills can get +2 (like Alertness). Initiative is has Improved Initiative which gives +4.

Breaking it down to what the bonuses mean. Weapon Focus give attack rolls the equivilent of +1 to 2 levels (fighters getting +1 each level, wizards getting it every two). For skills the +2 means either the equivilent 2 levels or 4 levels (class skill or cross class skill). Saving throws grant +2 which is either 4 levels or 6 levels depending on a good or bad save progression. Since Initiative doesn't increase with level it's by far the best in comparison this way. Besides the feat the only other way to increase iniative is by increasing Dex. One would have to increase their Dex 8 points to get +4 bonus as opposed to increasing strength 2 for the attack bonus that weapon focus gives, or a stat +4 for the approprioate skill or savingthrow increase.

The only other feats that gives a +4 bonuses are for very specific reasons. Combat casting for concentration checks only when casting defensively. Resist poison +4 fort saves against poison.

I hope that made some sense. It's been a long day. Is it unbalanced? Should it only be +2? Am I making a big deal out of nothing? Are you wondering what this crazy guy from Ohio is smoking?

 

[Piratecat]

Nope. After playtesting, and then playing with it for several years now, I believe it is just right. You see, initiative is irrelevant after the first round of the fight; as such, it only has one opportunity to help or hurt. Reducing it beyond +4 would make it virtually useless in my opinion.

 

[nwn_deadman]

As you have stated all other rolls have built in ways to gain an edge, init does not.

Improved Init. is the only way, besides dex and 1-2 other feats and having an air elemental familiar to get a gain.

Seems balanced when you look at it like that.

 

[Crothian]

Thanks for the answers. I have a player who refused to take ity cause he thought it was to powerful. It just seems there are many way to increase everything else, but iniative is only best increased with this feat. The others even have magic that can increase them, so taking those feats is not as important. But initiative has four feats I've seen (Improved from the PHB, 2 from FRCS that offer +2 and something else, and one in QF that gives an additional +4).

 

[Soltares]

The Feat is particularly useful if you are a Conjuror, as summoned creatures go on your Initiative action. Essentially the Feat ends up applying to your minions as well.

 

[drowdude]

Just want to reinforce the "improved initiative" is balanced position here...

 

[Crothian]

I can't say I've ever seen an instance were i thought it was unbalanced. Just when I started to think about it and looked at things to comapre it to, it seemed a little bit much. But that was only by comparison.

 

[Tyrion]

Perhaps this feat is a must-have for some classes--the rogue springs to mind, as the first-round sneak attack can be crucial. Powerful spellcasters can also benefit greatly from this feat, as a well-placed spell can end the battle before it begins.

On the other hand, I haven't seen a huge difference for fighter-types using this feat; certainly, against one or two opponents the fighters might be able to take them out without taking any damage, but in most fights the feat simply hasn't had an effect on the outcome of the battle.

If you have two similar characters, one with the feat and one without, compare them. I think you'll find the feat to be balanced.

 

[kreynolds]

I have a player who refused to take ity cause he thought it was to powerful.

Say what? Such players exist? Wierd. (just kidding)

I don't see a problem with it either. I gotta agree that about the only time initiative is really important is during the first round of combat. After that, you can move up and down the initiative count at will (though it does cost ya' a full round), so it's really not that big of a deal.

 

[hong]

I think Improved Init by itself is fine, but having several such feats that all add to initiative, and stack with each other, could be unbalancing. The cyclic initiative rule does help to keep things from ever getting really out of hand, though.