Improved Sneak Attack: good, bad or broken?

[haiiro]

I picked up AEG's Mercenaries yesterday, and it includes a feat called Improved Sneak Attack:

Improved Sneak Attack [General]

You can make exceptionally precise and lethal sneak attacks.
Prerequisites: BAB +2 or higher, ability to make sneak attacks.
Benefit: Your bonus damage for sneak attacks increases by one die type. If your sneak attack damage is d4s, it now increases to d6s; d6s increase to d8s, and so on.

This is more or less identical to the feat of the same name from Fantasy Flight's Traps & Treachery, save that the T&T version clarifies that this boost is retroactive -- all of your sneak attack damage is affected, not just what you gain after taking the feat.

My gut response to Improved Sneak Attack back when T&T first came out was that it was probably broken. The prereqs are minimal, and no rogue would be without this feat.

Now, a couple of years later, seeing it in Mercenaries got me started on thinking about this issue again. Looking at it in the context of other feats -- particularly Weapon Specialization (PHB) and Spellcasting Prodigy (FRCS) -- I'm no longer convinced that it is broken.

Much like WS and SP, few characters of the appropriate class will not take this feat, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, IMO. You still have to give up emphasizing some other element of your character to focus on sneak attack damage, and it doesn't make it any more likely that you'll be able to make or land sneak attacks in general. I am contemplating making the BAB prereq slightly higher (perhaps +4), but I'm not sure if that's really necessary.

What do you think? Is Improved Sneak Attack a solid feat, or does it need to be modified before it can be considered balanced?

As a followup question: Mercenaries also includes Superior Sneak Attack, which has Alertness, Improved Sneak Attack and BAB +8 as prereqs and steps your SA damage up by another die type (d8s are now d10s). A rogue or ninja (from Rokugan) with this feat will be truly brutal in combat, but so will a maxed out fighter with Improved Critical and an appropriate weapon. What do you think of this feat?

Thanks in advance.

 

[hammymchamham]

I'll just say I would never allow it in one of my games.

 

[clark411]

Gah!

I could see it working in a system where sneak attacks are far less common (like needing a Bounty Hunter PrC in Star Wars) and far less powerful (again, SW's BH max of +4d6).. but picturing a DnD rogue putting out 6d8 instead of 6d6 is scary.

 

[Aloïsius]

Could have been worse : what if the feat stack with itself : select it five times et voilà, your 9 th level rogue will deal 10D10 sneack attack damage...

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Clearly a broken, must have, no brainer choice. I am not even aware that there are forms of sneak attack that deal d4s in damage.

As a player I love the agonised choosing of feats, power attack or weapon focus? Spell focus or extra turning? Hard choices is what it is about and once decided that is what my character can do.

Easy decisions stifle choice when every class X has feat/spell Y. Gets very lame very fast.

 

[fl8m]

i let the rogue in my campaign have the feat and now she's 25th level so she's doing an amazing amount of damage.
Of course there are only 2 players in my campaign and the other one is a fighter/barbarian/weapon master of the greataxe. so i figured the boost to her damage output would help the survivability of such a small party. in a normal campaign with 4 people or so i wouldn't allow it.

 

[hammymchamham]

if a rogue took this 5 times, he'd be higher than level 9... they'd only take this feat at level 3, 6, 9, 12 and 15. A 15th level Rogue does 8d6 of dice damage.

using Manual of the Planes increase in damage dice size

Level 3 d6's become d8's
Level 6 d8's become 2d6's
Level 9 2d6's become 2d8's
Level 12 2d8's become 4d6's
Level 15 4d6's become 4d8's

A 15th level rogue would deal 32d8's of sneak attack damage. Of course, aside level 1 feats, this is the only feat this rogue has

 

[Caliber]

if a rogue took this 5 times, he'd be higher than level 9... they'd only take this feat at level 3, 6, 9, 12 and 15. A 15th level Rogue does 8d6 of dice damage.

using Manual of the Planes increase in damage dice size

Level 3 d6's become d8's
Level 6 d8's become 2d6's
Level 9 2d6's become 2d8's
Level 12 2d8's become 4d6's
Level 15 4d6's become 4d8's

A 15th level rogue would deal 32d8's of sneak attack damage. Of course, aside level 1 feats, this is the only feat this rogue has

When you can do 144 (average) on a Sneak Attack (and get 2 or 3 of those a round ) I don't think you NEED any other Feats.

Taken once this Feat simply increases your average Sneak Attack +1 per die. Not too bad (although I probably wouldn't allow it)

Allowing it to stack, and be taken more than once, is just asking for trouble.

 

[haiiro]

if a rogue took this 5 times, he'd be higher than level 9... they'd only take this feat at level 3, 6, 9, 12 and 15. A 15th level Rogue does 8d6 of dice damage.

I think both Improved Sneak Attack and Superior Sneak Attack would have to be limited such that each feat can only be taken once. IMO, this was the designers' intent in both T&T and Mercenaries, and I suspect its absence in the feat descriptions was unintentional.

I absolutely agree that ISA is completely broken if it can be taken mutliple times. For the purposes of this thread, let's assume it can only be taken once (and the same for SSA). This was what I had in mind when I started the thread, but I didn't include it in the post.

 

[haiiro]

Clearly a broken, must have, no brainer choice. I am not even aware that there are forms of sneak attack that deal d4s in damage.

T&T includes the thug NPC class, which has d4s for sneak attack damage. Mercenaries presents a few classes with alternate sneak attack dice, including the guerilla (d4s) and hunter (d8s).

I'm not really looking at ISA in relation to these classes -- my concern is primarily for PHB rogues (and to a lesser extent, Rokugan's ninja class). I suppose any alterations to ISA would have to take classes like the hunter and thug into account, but as I don't plan on using them in my games I'm setting that issue aside.

As a player I love the agonised choosing of feats, power attack or weapon focus? Spell focus or extra turning? Hard choices is what it is about and once decided that is what my character can do.

OOC, what other "easy decision" feats are already out there -- if any -- in your opinion? Would you include Weapon Specialization and Spellcasting Prodigy in such a list?