Improving specific magic weapons and armor

[Sir Pentor]

Say one of my players has a Flame tongue longsword (DMG page 188, +1 flaming, also flaming burst, market price 32,315gp). However, since *every* monster that you fight at the level at which you could get something like that has damage reduction at n/+2 or greater, he wants to further enchant the weapon to, say, +3. How would price that?

My players have forwarded the following idea:
Take the market price, round it up to the nearest enchantment bonus, and then build from there.

So in this case, the flame tongue sword costs 32,315gp, which we round up to 50,000gp, or a +5 bonus. To make it a +3 weapon, the character must pay the difference between a +5 bonus and a +7 bonus, which is 48,000 gp.

Does this sound reasonable? Would you let this happen at all?

Thanks

 

[Archer]

The flametongue longsword isn't even a special weapon. Its a +3 equivalent longsword so should technically cost the difference between a +3 and +5 longsword but burst is such a sucky power it shouldn't count as more than flaming and charge for the upgrade from +2 to +4.

You should let it be upgraded for 32k base cost. I'd let it be upgraded for 24k base cost, but that's my personal preference. 48k for a +2 upgrade is beyond excessive.

 

[Sir Pentor]

So, first of all, yes, the Flame Tongue is a specific weapon, as listed in the DMG. You are right, it is a particularly sucky one (none of my players actually have this, but it seemed like a reasonable weapong to use as an example).

Regardless of the inadequacis of the flame tongue specific weapon, my question stands. If a player wants to improve some specific weapon, how would you handle that?

Thanks

 

[Greatwyrm]

The Flame Tounge is really just a +2 longsword with Flaming and Flaming Burst. A +4 weapon.

Do the math on the cost. +4 worth of enhancements is only 32,000 gp. That small extra amount is probably just the cost of a masterwork longsword, which you need to make a Flame Tounge. I'd say it only costs to upgrade it as if you're starting with a +4 weapon.

For items that don't break down so easily, I think you're rounding up to the next highest gp amount would probably be fair. It could be a little pricey though.

 

[skunian]

Greatwyrm is correct.

Flame Tongue is a +4 weapon
+1 for the +1
+1 for flaming
+2 for flaming burst
for a total of +4 (32000gp+315 for a MW Longsword)

To upgrade it to a +2 TH/DMG you need to upgrade it to a +5 weapon paying the difference in price (18000gp (50000 for +5 - 32000 for +4 = 18000) If he makes the item himeself or a friend makes it the cost is only 9000gp (half the base price) and 360 XP.

Hope this helps

 

[jontherev]

Greatwyrm is correct.

Flame Tongue is a +4 weapon
+1 for the +1
+1 for flaming
+2 for flaming burst
for a total of +4 (32000gp+315 for a MW Longsword)

To upgrade it to a +2 TH/DMG you need to upgrade it to a +5 weapon paying the difference in price (18000gp (50000 for +5 - 32000 for +4 = 18000) If he makes the item himeself or a friend makes it the cost is only 9000gp (half the base price) and 360 XP.

Hope this helps

Interesting. Actually, it appears the price is way too high in the dmg. Flaming Burst works JUST like Flaming, so it is redundant to have both flaming AND flaming burst on the same weapon. Read the description of burst. So, it SHOULD be a +3 weapon and cost only ~16000 gp. However, this is a bit off topic. Otherwise, I agree with the above.

 

[skunian]

jontherev is correct, that's an oversite on my part. The flaming ability is granted by having flaming burst, so it's only a +3 weapon total. SO same as above just cheaper

 

[orion winterfire]

upgrading specific weapons and armor can go several ways. you could estimate the "+" equivalent, or do like your players suggested, and round up (or down, for that matter).
personally, i would probably round, either up or down on an individual basis depending on my personal interpretation of the market price of the item vs. its game-worth. i would round overpriced or crappy items down, cheaper or kick-ass items up.
btw, i wonder why they even put a specific weapon entry in the dmg for flametongue. it is just a +1 flaming burst longsword. wtf??

 

[hong]

btw, i wonder why they even put a specific weapon entry in the dmg for flametongue. it is just a +1 flaming burst longsword. wtf??

Just another one of those sacred cows, I guess. Flame tongues have been around since 1E days, and it would be odd for many people if they just disappeared.

 

[orion winterfire]

actually, i just changed my mind. im sitting here looking at the dmg specific weapons. their market prices are as item creation rules, basically. all the prices are based on powers+masterwork item. so id upgrade like this:
first, determine the price of the current unusual (specific) enchanments (price of unusual enchantments = market price of specific item - price of masterwork item - price of enchancment bonuses and normal [described in weapons section] powers)
then, re-figured the market price of the item (new market price = price of masterwork item + price of enhanced magic item without specific powers + price of specific powers figured above)
finally, the cost of the upgrade would be the new market price - the old market price.
how does this sound? it doesnt slide the slace like the standard powers do, but i think it would work.