Level Up (A5E) Improving spells

[Guest 6801328]

I'll add "fewer concentration spells" to my wish list. I wouldn't go crazy taking them off the list, but there could definitely be some adjustments. Somebody posted a thread with a long analysis recently. Can't say I agreed with all the conclusions, but it had some good thoughts.

 

[Haldrik]

Forgetting changing individual spells, how would you improve spells in general? In terms of things like formatting, classification, and content.

(Not asking about individual spell changes or fixes at this time).

Bear in mind, we’re not changing the underlying system. This isn’t about alternate spell systems. Assume you’ve been tasked to take the existing spell lists and rewrite them. What do you do?

Reorganize spells by themes and tropes. More like Cleric domains. Make this the basic way to engage spells.



Also allow spells to have multiple tags:
• area type (ranged single target, ranged blast, melee single target, melee blast)
• purpose type (damage or heal/resurrect, debuff or buff/restore, mobility or immobilize/wall/restrain, detect/sense or nondetection/stealth, summon/conjure or dispel/banish)

 

[Haldrik]

I’d take a leaf out of 4e’s book and create a standardized spell template. Something like...

[Spell Name]________[Xth] level [School] [Ritual?]
Components: [V?] [S?] [M (components)?]
Casting Time: [X time/action unit(s)]
Duration: [Concentration? (up to)] [duration]
Range: [Spell range]
Target: X [creature(s)/target(s)] within [range/area]
Attack: [ranged/melee spell attack]
Hit: [Effect on a hit]
Save: [Ability]
Effect: [Effect on a failed save]
On Save: [Effect on a successful save]
[Description and other relevant effects]
At Higher Levels: [upcast effect]

In a spell statblock like this, remember to distinguish between creating an effect oneself directly, versus creating an intermediary (conjuration, construct, ongoing area of effect, etcetera) that then creates its own effects from its own position. Maybe refer to a spell with an intermediary as a "conjuration".

 

[FrogReaver]

Pt 1
Current PHB setup showing class and it's spells by level

Pt 2
List of level 1 spells in alphabetical order with class tags on spell
List of level 2 spells in alphabetical order with class tags on spell
etc.

***Add to Pt 1 a reference for which page spells of each level begin on.

 

[FrogReaver]

Spell format should change. More info should be in top block of spell.

Also would be cool to be able to quickly see spell's general combat purpose. Aoe Damage, healing, control, utility, etc. Other for unique spell effects.

 

[FrogReaver]

I also liked the idea of spells by class, but spells are so duplicated in 5e between classes I'm not sure that's a practical idea.

 

[Haldrik]

I am leaning toward:

Each class has a pregenerated default, with little or no choices. So a newbie or one-off can pick it up as is and play it.

These default spells should have the spell description nearby and handy.

However, if swapping the default features or spells for other features or spells, then one might as well go hunt for them elsewhere in the book.



To organize the spell description by class, works better by sorting and filtering within a digital database. A book with redundant spells printed again and again feels less appealing to me.

 

[rules.mechanic]

Digital databases are very useful - perhaps more so with spells than any other part of the game. I'm a book person and love reading the spell flavour in the books (would really like it to be better organised in the PHB and fully agree with Vincegetorix's and The Old Crow's suggestions for that) but online spell lists have an additional functionality that books can't really match. Especially when my players can then print personalised lists of their own spells (with abbreviated descriptions). Of course, if there is enough compatibility, people can still use the popular online 5e tools.

 

[Lanefan]

I’d take a leaf out of 4e’s book and create a standardized spell template. Something like...

[Spell Name]________[Xth] level [School] [Ritual?]
Components: [V?] [S?] [M (components)?]
Casting Time: [X time/action unit(s)]
Duration: [Concentration? (up to)] [duration]
Range: [Spell range]
Target: X [creature(s)/target(s)] within [range/area]
Attack: [ranged/melee spell attack]
Hit: [Effect on a hit]
Save: [Ability]
Effect: [Effect on a failed save]
On Save: [Effect on a successful save]
[Description and other relevant effects]
At Higher Levels: [upcast effect]

You could combine a few of these lines to make the block a bit shorter:

Save: [Ability; effect on successful save] For example: Save: Wisdom; effect negated; or Save: Dexterity; half damage; or Save: none.

Also, what's the difference between "effect on a hit" and "effect on a failed save"? Aren't those the same, as in "what this spell does if successful"? Perhaps you could combine these two lines as well, as "Effect: [what the spell is trying to do]"., and switch the order with Save. So, it'd now read as:

. . .
Attack: [ranged/melee spell attack] <== and is this line even necessary at all?
Effect: [what the spell is trying to do]
Save: [Ability; modified effect on successful save]
[Description and other relevant effects]
. . .

 

[Lylandra]

Digital databases are very useful - perhaps more so with spells than any other part of the game. I'm a book person and love reading the spell flavour in the books (would really like it to be better organised in the PHB and fully agree with Vincegetorix's and The Old Crow's suggestions for that) but online spell lists have an additional functionality that books can't really match. Especially when my players can then print personalised lists of their own spells (with abbreviated descriptions). Of course, if there is enough compatibility, people can still use the popular online 5e tools.

Could not agree more. The main differences between a digital DB and a printed list are 1) customizability and 2) the elimination of a need for a hierarchy.

We've had some discussion on how to sort spells... whether class should be the uppermost level of category, or spell level, or maybe even school. With a digital "tag" all of these categories coexist on the same general level of importance and every player can apply the filters or views they prefer themselves.

This is especially true for someone like me who currently plays a character that can use spells from two different classes, or for someone who multiclasses. Having spells separated by class would be worse than just one big list for me, while it would be heaven for others.