Improving the Hobgoblin

[Viktyr Gehrig]

In more than one rules analysis, I've used the Hobgoblin as an example of the weakest LA +1 creature-- typically comparing them to the Dwarf as the strongest LA +0. Due to some of the campaign options I'm allowing (notably Gestalt), I'm forced to wonder if the Hobgoblin is worth the +1 LA, especially when compared to other LA +1 races that I've improved for flavor reasons. (Mainly planetouched. All of them.) They're also plagued, in a psionics or planewalking campaign, by being very similar to a weaker Githyanki.

To correct these problems, I've added a couple of minor benefits to the Hobgoblin. I'd like to hear other peoples' opinions about them, and if they dislike my change, suggestions as to how to improve them.

HOBGOBLIN CHARACTERS
Hobgoblin characters possess the following racial traits.
—+2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution.
—A hobgoblin’s base land speed is 40 feet.
—Darkvision out to 60 feet.
—+4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks.
—Hobgoblins gain Exotic Weapon Proficiency as a bonus feat, allowing them to use the exotic weapons associated with any Weapon Group Proficiency they possess. (I'm using the Weapon Group Proficiency rules from Unearthed Arcana. In a normal game, I'd simply give them proficiency in one exotic weapon of their choice.)
—+1 racial bonus on attack rolls against Orcs and Dwarves, the Hobgoblins most frequent (and most hated) enemies.
—Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Infernal, Giant, Orc.
—Favored Gestalt: Fighter/Rogue.
—Level adjustment +1.

 

[S'mon]

I think this is the wrong approach. I don't think hobgoblins should be ubermensch (ubergobsch?) - IMC I've removed the hobgoblin's +2 DEX bonus and put the EL back to +0. I think the +2 CON makes it comparable to a human's benefits, a bit weaker than a dwarf.

 

[DragonTurtle]

I think this is on par with races such as the tiefling. However flavor wise I think that making the Hobgoblin into an extremely disciplined warrior, would be cool. I see it above in the extra weapon feat and the increased speed (I am thinking lots of forced marches), however something that gives them a bonus to morale against fear, or a bonus to certain will saves also come to mind.

If hobgoblins are forced from birth to be perfect warriors, and that hobgoblin society being evil would have no qualms about killing off the waeker members of thier society and/or using extreme punishment to enforce discipline, these guys should not break in combat.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

—Hobgoblins gain Exotic Weapon Proficiency as a bonus feat, allowing them to use the exotic weapons associated with any Weapon Group Proficiency they possess. (I'm using the Weapon Group Proficiency rules from Unearthed Arcana. In a normal game, I'd simply give them proficiency in one exotic weapon of their choice.)

If you force the pick, you give the modified race more flavor, IMHO.

 

[DragonTurtle]

If you force the pick, you give the modified race more flavor, IMHO.

Well for weapon groups, I see the point of leaving it as is, if you know heavy swords, you know bastard sword automatically. I like that.

In campaigns that don't use it, one free exotic is a bit open, perhaps a list that fits your campaign world would be appropriate, I think that would be open to any DM who chooses to use this version of the Hobgoblin. I just read an Eberron novel where it sounded like hobs like spiked chains, so in Eberron that would seem to make since as the exotic choice.

 

[Eremite]

I've given hobgoblins IMC a +2 to Str simply because their description strongly implies that the average hobgoblin is stronger than the average human. This seems to take care of the LA +1 problem as well.

 

[S'mon]

I like Eremite's approach (+2 STR) - this makes them a decent ECL +1, which on current stats I agree they're not.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Taking DragonTurtle's suggestion into account, I've added a bonus to saves vs. fear and mind-affecting effects, reflecting their extraordinary discipline. I thought about a Strength bonus, but a +2 bonus to all physical attributes seems excessive for a LA +1 race-- if I put that in, I'd probably put in a penalty to Charisma as well.

I'd say, at this point, that they're probably on the low-middle of LA +1 in my games.

HOBGOBLIN CHARACTERS
Hobgoblin characters possess the following racial traits.
—+2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution.
—A hobgoblin’s base land speed is 40 feet.
—Darkvision out to 60 feet.
—+4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks.
—Hobgoblins gain Exotic Weapon Proficiency as a bonus feat, allowing them to use the exotic weapons associated with any Weapon Group Proficiency they possess. (In games which do not use these rules, give proficiency in the Spiked Chain, instead.)
—+1 racial bonus on attack rolls against Orcs and Dwarves, the Hobgoblins most frequent (and most hated) enemies.
—+2 racial bonus on saves vs. fear and mind-affecting effects. The Hobgoblins' battle discipline makes them more resistant to magics that might distract them from their duties.
—Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Infernal, Giant, Orc.
—Favored Gestalt: Fighter/Rogue.
—Level adjustment +1.

 

[Hand of Evil]

The old as from the SRD:

HOBGOBLIN
Hobgoblin, 1st-Level Warrior
Medium Humanoid (Goblinoid)
Hit Dice: 1d8+2 (6 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (+1 Dex, +3 studded leather, +1 light shield), touch 11, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+2
Attack: Longsword +2 melee (1d8+1/19–20) or javelin +2 ranged (1d6+1)
Full Attack: Longsword +2 melee (1d8+1/19–20) or javelin +2 ranged (1d6+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft.
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +1, Will –1
Abilities: Str 13, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8
Skills: Hide +3, Listen +2, Move Silently +3, Spot +2
Feats: Alertness
Environment: Warm hills

Organization: Gang (4–9), band (10–100 plus 50% noncombatants plus 1 3rd-level sergeant per 20 adults and 1 leader of 4th–6th level), warband (10–24), or tribe (30–300 plus 50% noncombatants plus 1 3rd-level sergeant per 20 adults, 1 or 2 lieutenants of 4th or 5th level, 1 leader of 6th–8th level, 2–4 dire wolves, and 1–4 ogres or 1–2 trolls)
Challenge Rating: 1/2
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually lawful evil
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +1

Hobgoblins are larger cousins of goblins. Hobgoblins’ hair color ranges from dark reddish-brown to dark gray. They have dark orange or red-orange skin. Large males have blue or red noses. Hobgoblins’ eyes are yellowish or dark brown, while their teeth are yellow. Their garments tend to be brightly colored, often blood red with black-tinted leather. Their weaponry is kept polished and in good repair. Hobgoblins speak Goblin and Common. Most hobgoblins encountered outside their homes are warriors; the information in the statistics block is for one of 1st level.

COMBAT
These creatures have a strong grasp of strategy and tactics and are capable of carrying out sophisticated battle plans. Under the leadership of a skilled strategist or tactician, their discipline can prove a deciding factor. Hobgoblins hate elves and attack them first, in preference to other opponents.

Skills: Hobgoblins have a +4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks.
The hobgoblin warrior presented here had the following ability scores before racial adjustments: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8.

HOBGOBLIN CHARACTERS
Hobgoblin characters possess the following racial traits.
— +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution.
—A hobgoblin’s base land speed is 30 feet.
—Darkvision out to 60 feet.
— +4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks.
—Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Infernal, Giant, Orc.
—Favored Class: Fighter.
—Level adjustment +1.

------------------------------------------------
I think I would keep them the same but to beef them up a simple damage reduction is all that is needed say DR of 5,6 or 7 even would make them a major foe.

 

[S'mon]

>>I think I would keep them the same but to beef them up a simple damage reduction is all that is needed say DR of 5,6 or 7 even would make them a major foe.<<

Er, yeah... *ulp*

This thread is about ECL+1 hobgoblins. You think DR 5 (plus other hobgob stuff) makes ECL +1?