Improving the Hobgoblin

[MonsterMash]

I've given hobgoblins IMC a +2 to Str simply because their description strongly implies that the average hobgoblin is stronger than the average human. This seems to take care of the LA +1 problem as well.

For me that sounds like enough to make the +1 LA appropriate as often that will improve attack and damage rolls and with an enhanced CON makes them pretty tough warriors which fits their martial bias. I'd maybe give higher levels hobgobs the leadership feat for free maybe as an additional thing to justify the LA for higher level characters.

 

[Darkness]

>>I think I would keep them the same but to beef them up a simple damage reduction is all that is needed say DR of 5,6 or 7 even would make them a major foe.<<

Er, yeah... *ulp*

This thread is about ECL+1 hobgoblins. You think DR 5 (plus other hobgob stuff) makes ECL +1?

Maybe it's DR 5/slashing or magic or silver or chaotic or good.

 

[Hand of Evil]

>>I think I would keep them the same but to beef them up a simple damage reduction is all that is needed say DR of 5,6 or 7 even would make them a major foe.<<

Er, yeah... *ulp*

This thread is about ECL+1 hobgoblins. You think DR 5 (plus other hobgob stuff) makes ECL +1?

Maybe a bit high yes (could be a 2) but if you want the Githyanki use them and just call them Hobgoblins, or duergar or some other monster.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Thinking about S'Mon's approach-- and my desire for basic PC races to be more or less parallel-- I've tried to come up with a solid, playable ECL +0 Hobgoblin. The Wisdom and Charisma penalties reflect stifling discipline; the Hobgoblins have never had a chance to develop their intuition or their will due to strict adherence to their orders. It also changes the dynamic of the saving throw bonus, from a straight bonus to a compensation for an ability penalty.

This also establishes a neat four-point parallel between the different martial races: Dwarves are LG, Elves are CG, Orcs are CE, and Hobgoblins are LE. Interestingly, the strongest rivalries and/or racial hatreds are between the races which share an axis in common-- Lawful Dwarves and Hobgoblins, Chaotic Elves and Orcs, Good Elves and Dwarves, or Evil Orcs and Hobgoblins.

I know that the ability scores are, by the book, imbalanced, but I really think that the rules as written overvalue Strength and Dexterity and undervalue Wisdom. The relative dearth of special racial abilities, and combining a Wisdom penalty with a FG that has poor Will saves, leave this fairly on-par with other races. The first thing I'd do to nerf this design (if needed) would probably be to remove the EWP, and the second would be to lower the Move Silently bonus to +2.


HOBGOBLIN CHARACTERS
Hobgoblin characters possess the following racial traits.
—+2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma.
—Darkvision out to 60 feet.
—+4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks.
—Hobgoblins gain Exotic Weapon Proficiency as a bonus feat, allowing them to use the exotic weapons associated with any Weapon Group Proficiency they possess.
—+1 racial bonus on attack rolls against Orcs and Dwarves, the Hobgoblins' most frequent (and most hated) enemies.
—+2 racial bonus on saves vs. fear and mind-affecting effects. The Hobgoblins' battle discipline makes them more resistant to magics that might distract them from their duties.
—Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Infernal, Giant, Orc.
—Favored Gestalt: Fighter/Rogue.
—Level adjustment +0.

edit: To demonstrate the parallel, here are the non-human martial races' ability adjustments and Favored Gestalts for comparison:

Dwarf: -2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma. Fighter/Expert.
Elf: -2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution, +2 Charisma. Ranger/Wizard.
Orc: +4 Strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma. Barbarian/Ranger.
Hobgoblin: +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma. Fighter/Rogue.

The Dwarf gets a flat bonus to all Will saves to compensate for the Dexterity penalty; with the stronger armor rules in my games, their extra ability with armor is also a major benefit. I'm thinking of automatically upgrading the armor proficiency they gain from their class, allowing them to use Heavy Armor without spending a feat for it.

I think the Elf comes out a little light, and I'm trying to figure out something to balance them back out. I'm leaning towards a speed bonus.

 

[Nifft]

Remember that LA+1 applies in a 25-point-buy universe. In higher stat worlds, stat +2/+2 is NOT worth LA+1. What's the point buy (or equiv) in your world?

-- N

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Remember that LA+1 applies in a 25-point-buy universe. In higher stat worlds, stat +2/+2 is NOT worth LA+1. What's the point buy (or equiv) in your world?

25 at 1st level. It increases incrementally-- 85 at 20th. It's also a Gestalt game, which makes any level adjustment considerably more painful.

 

[Nifft]

Indeed, LA for Gestalt is just plain wrong... I'd suggest some racial levels. (Design an LA +0 version, and have a 2-4 level Racial Paragon which gets you the rest of the way to the +1 LA version.)

e.g.:
Full BAB, 4 skill points/level
Level 1: Darkvision, some skill bonus
Level 2: +1 Con, +1 Dex
Level 3: +1 Con, +1 Dex, some racial bonus

-- N

 

[Devious Kobald]

Heres my take on hobgoblins

Dark vision 60
4 extra skill point at first level +1 at each additional level

pretty simple hey

 

[Coredump]

If you want to make Hobgoblins more interesting.... check out KenzerCo's Book on them. It is a great read, and has some very neat ideas. Even how a hobgoblin kingdom would be run.

And yes, there is some crunch in there also.

./

 

[Jaerom Darkwind]

As an aside, I'd recommend letting characters gestault their LA with racial HD. This makes them balanced with normal gestault characters.