I'n a little concerned...

[Calico_Jack73]

While I wasn't able to attend the D&D Experience my DM did and he had nothing good to say about 4e and he is one of the more open minded people I know. One of the issues that got me worried is the use of "At Will" abilities vs. a character's base attack. In one of the games he played a Dwarf warrior-type and he told me that his character had an At-Will ability to attack and knock back the enemy with a successful attack. That ability did the same damage and had the same probability to hit as the dwarf's base attack. His question was, when would you ever use the base attack when most of the characters have an at-will ability that is as good or better that their base attack.

I don't know folks... I was really looking forward to 4e up until my DM's report but now I'm not so sure.

Comments?

 

[Derren]

At will abilities are supposed to be used most of the time.
You only use normal attacks for AoOs, when you are not allowed to use them (stunned? Dazed? Some condition....) or when its tactically bad to use them (very rare).

 

[Baka no Hentai]

From my understanding, 4th Edition is designed around you using your at will abilities as your standard attacks each round. The designers expect you to only use base attacks as part of instant actions (attack of opportunity for example) or as parts of other actions (when you charge, for example.)

They don't want any character to be stuck swinging a sword or using a hand crossbow 90% of the time. The at will abilities are supposed to replace the basic attacks and make the bulk of combat more interesting for everyone.


Edit: Doh! Derren beat me to it!

 

[Gorrstagg]

You use your Basic Attack, when you charge.
You use your Basic Attack, when you get an Opportunity Attack.

There may be further situations where it applies, that we don't know of yet without the full rule set.

 

[small pumpkin man]

As a fighter, you'll likely use them for ranged attacks too.

 

[Gorrstagg]

One thing to consider, about your at will powers.

They are different flavors of combat options, they offer different advantages, that you as the player choose, that fit your play style. That makes them more than just like every attack in D&D, basically, a basic attack.

Here, they've done things like Attack, and then you can shift 1 square before or after. It's just a flavor but give you greater tactical options, and in fact help simulate (despite folks saying simulation is gone) the ebb and flow of combat that isn't always static.

So, I would ask you as a player, in general. Do you prefer all your attacks are "Basic" attacks in 3.5 E (with some feat spicing it up from time to time)? Or would you prefer to have evolving attacks that give you different benefits, but also help create a more fun combat experience, and the moving flow of combat?

Because in a way, all they've done is take at will powers, and took a basic attack and spiced it up with the equivalent of some feat.

So does that help you wrap your head around it? A little bit better?

 

[eleran]

Also keep in mind that that particular power requires you have a shield equipped. I had an encounter happen last night while the group was trying to sleep and the dwarf woke up immediately in melee and was unable to grab the shield so was unable to use that power during that fight, and it would have been handy.

 

[Li Shenron]

"At-wills" are supposed to replace regular attacks most of the time.

They are in fact a little bit like many combat feats such as Weapon Focus. You use them all the time, unless some circumstance prevents you to fulfill the requirement.

IMHO one thing that is raising people's browse is how the at-wills are worded in the DDXP document, because they tend to repeat obvious stuff like attack bonus and damage. But maybe in the PHB they are worded in terms of bonuses, which makes them look more like feats.

Eventually the big difference with feats is that most of the time an at-will is said to specifically require an action (that replaces the "normal attack action") and the consequence is simply that you cannot stack at-will abilities like you can stack feats.

 

[el-remmen]

Wow. I did not know this. I think more than anything this turns me off to 4E.

Still got the books pre-ordered though!

 

[wedgeski]

Yeah it was explicitly stated in one of the Wizards documents, IIRC, that you will very rarely just use your basic attack. I really like the idea (haven't seen it in practice) of two fighters barging eachother around the battlefield while everyone else tries to stay out of their way!