In an Essentials build a straitjacket?

[jasonbostwick]

And that is why I suddenly understand the point of the knight using MBAs instead of powers.

Yep, I've got a similar player in my group - he is interested in role playing and having fun exploring fantasy worlds and even high-octane action scenes, but he just can't handle mechanics.

The differences between Shift and Move, Push and Teleport, or 3[W] and 2[W] + 5 ongoing are all lost on him.

I see the comment come up always that introducing simpler builds will make players feel patronized and like they're being treated with kid gloves because they "can't handle" more advanced classes, but I don't see it as an issue.

Players like my friend who feel overwhelmed by the current choices in the system won't see things that way. They'll feel more confident playing a class that they actually understand fully.

 

[Greatwyrm]

And that is why I suddenly understand the point of the knight using MBAs instead of powers.

I agree with that, but there's another side to that which doesn't see much discussion. Essentials is meant to appeal to existing/experienced players for different reasons.

The MBA focus is probably easier for a new person to work with. But as an experienced player, think of all the things that modify or give you MBAs. Charge, Opportunity Attacks, about half of all Warlord powers. Put the words "basic melee attack" into the Compendium and then look at the magic items that come up -- even just in the heroic tier. Some of the style feats could still be appealing, even if you don't have access to all the related powers.

 

[mkill]

I don't think "straightjacket" is the right analogy.

I'd rather call it an "automatic gearbox". Sure, you don't get to decide which gear the car is in, but if you're just driving to the supermarket, who cares? If you're trying to build a race car, a manual gear shift lets you eke out more power, but it only really matters on the race track.

 

[FireLance]

I don't think "straightjacket" is the right analogy.

Yeah, to me it's more like ordering the set lunch (which may or may not include zucchini, bacon, scrambled egg, eggs over easy, broccoli made of meat, cheese, etc.) instead of a la carte.

 

[Tony Vargas]

So my real question is, if a player starts out with an Essentials knight, can he later start pulling in feats and fighter powers from PHB/MP/MP2 and DDI, or is he stuck with that progression all to way to level 30 unless he starts over with a new character?

A Knight can take Fighter feats and fighter utility powers, but not fighter at-wills, dailies, or encoutners, since he doesn't have at-wills/dailies/encounters that say "fighter attack X" where 'x' is a level. He does get utilities at specified levels, so they presumably can be traded in, and, much like a non-Fighter with the mutliclass feat, he can pass for a fighter when meeting feat prerequisites.

I think it would be very reasonable for a DM to allow a player who was becoming dissatisifed with his Essentials sub-class to 'morph' to a real build at some later time. Asside from that or simply starting a new character, it's a matter of swapping out powers with an explicit level. The Mage is basically a wizard. The Warpriest is basically a Cleric with power steering and not STR vs WIS issues. The Knight is prettymuch a new class called 'Knight' that gets to be a multi-class Fighter for free.