In Character Embezzlin` - Another Taboo?

[Romnipotent]

In a few games I've played I or another party member were the "spokesman" for buying and selling gear for the party.
One character embezzled over 9000gp and purchased a boat, carts, and "workers" (endentured labour) for travel. The amounts off the total were always just enough not to be noticed. And it was in character so the other players knew, but none of them twigged in character. He died, taking with him another 5000 in funds after a hydra gnawed him apart.

He in essence stole from the party but everyone still got a handsome wad of money.
I know some people make sure everyone gets the same, but afterwoods I felt that the embezzling added depth to the character and the game. Everyone got paid in secret, not knowing what the other got, or indeed what I kept.

Is it wrong to steal from your own party? Go Haley

 

[Rystil Arden]

One time, I was playing in a game with a rather inexpert GM. My character was Neutral Good, and the rest of the party consisted of a paladin whose player (not the character) was a little bit demented (he made a sock puppet with whom to talk) and so of little help, and the rest of the party were Lawful or Chaotic "Neutral" , by which I mean incredibly evil.

So there's:

Me, Neutral Good Enchanter

Insane Paladin (the GM was lax and let him keep his paladinhood)

(Evil) Chaotic Neutral Druid (heard that the local town supported itself with foresting, so vowed to murder them all)

(Evil) Chaotic Neutral Bard (shot into melee without taking the -4, causing him to hit allies, and used Inspire Courage on the enemies, causing a hit that killed a good NPC ally)

(Evil) Chaotic Neutral Rogue (When we defeated evil mooks who had a caravan of grain in a land where the peasants were starving and oppressed, he decided to burn the grain when I wanted to give it to the peasants. I then asked him to please not do that in and out of character, and he refused, saying he was playing his character. Then I Charmed him, and he said it was "against my nature" to not burn the grain, requiring an opposed Charisma check)

(Maybe not Evil, but Vengeful) Lawful Neutral Fighter (Cut off the bard's hands and tongue after the Inspire Courage incident. Threatened to kill the gnome with a sword to the throat.)

You may ask, "Why did you adventure with them, then, if they offended your character's moral code?" Well the GM made up some prophecy that required it.

Anyways, these guys didn't trust each other to divide the treasure, and they didn't have Identify anyway, but they trusted my character because they knew she was Good. And she realised it was an evil act to support these guys with money, so my character secretly embezzled a good deal of the rest of the party's money and donated it to charities.

Edit: They never figured it out until after we broke up that game for other reasons...

 

[tetsujin28]

Is it wrong to steal from your own party?

Yes. I've found it leads to interparty conflict, which I also hate.

 

[Romnipotent]

If they find out in character why dont they change who handles the "pay roll"?
interparty conflict has been the most fun I've had in game for a while... we argue like some odd family half the time about things... in character miscommunications for miner/minor

I see PC on PC action and embezzling as factors of REAL gaming, which may mean it takes a different maturity to accept that someone is doing it.

Im not attempting to advocate interparty conflict, I'd rather it not happen, but I still say it should happen to generate valuable roleplaying.
Interparty conflict shouldn't mean interplayer conflict, as a GM I try and reaffirm that they must realise its in character, not in player (hopefully). They must deal with it in character as well, at least thats what I hope I try and achieve.

 

[Numion]

I've noticed that pocketing items before they enter the party treasury is worse than 'cooking the books', i.e. tweaking the sales values. Like accidentally divide the total loot by party member number + 1, giving you two shares. This can be done silently without anyone noticing, but pocketing items or "scouting ahead" is always a bit difficult from metagame pov. The PCs might not know, but usually players do know, leading to conflicts.

At least in our group all the loot is collected to one list, sold off, the values added by one person who then divides it equally to all. So if you're the one doing the counting and dividing ..

 

[Aaron L]

If its in chaacter, I dont see any reason why not. If the character isnt to be trusted, well, they arent to be trusted, and eventually the other characters will probably find out. Artificial restrictions on character actions "for the benefit of the party" or whatever really ruin any semblance of realism and enjoyment of a game for me. It would be like saying "ok, the Neutral Good guy and the Neutral Evil guy have to get along because youre the PCs." Let what happens, happen. Id expect actual consequences from the actions, however, whether its getting beaten up a bit, yelled at, or thrown out of the party, depending on the strength of friendships (or lack thereof) of the characters in the party. Id especially get really ticked off if a DM ever tried to dictate treasure distrubution to me, as that is something TOTALLY out of the DMs hands, on the same level as telling me how to play my character.

Let me add, however, that if I knew that one of my fellow players would be hurt by the actions my character may take, I will, as another player who wants everyone involved in my game to have fun, not take said actions. Everyone having fun is my primary concern. And as a DM I would advise my players to do the same for the others in the group. But in all honesty everyone Ive ever played with was already good friends and already knew that in character actions werent personal and we were all playing a game and portraying imaginary characters, and we'd screwed each other with various characters quite frequently. Never anything lethal except for the rare few evil games, but weve stolen millions of gold peices from each other at times.

 

[Hand of Evil]

If it is in character and the DM is in on it, it is role playing, no problems. It also needs to be noted and understod that this means that somewhere down the line the character could become an NPC; other characters find out and are out for blood.

My games, my players have a contract as part of the adventuring guild, they get a number of shares, some shares to the team, some to the church, some for henchmen, some for petty cash, etc. Embezzlment can happen, IOUs can happen, debt can happen, they are all part of the game and plot hooks.

 

[Ambrus]

In general I don't advocate this kind of behaviour. It usually leads to hard feelings in and out of character, distrust, anger and perhaps even PC violence. Adventuring parties are supposed to be teams that work together to accomplish goals.

That being said I'm afraid that I'm guilty of it as well, but not by choice. My current character is a gold dragon wyrmling (from dragon magazine #320). When we started the campaign we touched briefly on the topic of dividing loot, fairness and such. I stated that my character, being a young dragon and all would naturally be covetous and a little greedy even if he was lawful good. I stated my opinion as above and said that for the sake of the party and the campaign that I wouldn't role-play this aspect of his personality by trying to embezzle party funds. Some of the other players didn't agree with me though and thought I should try it because it would be "a great role-playing opportunity and fun". I told them "You don't understand, my character has a higher Int then all of yours and is a little devious. It's not a great role-playing opportunity because if I do it right you'll never notice it." They dismissed my objections and again encouraged me do role-play my character's greed. I shrugged.

The funny thing is that I'm the only person at the table who is willing to keep track of the party's loot, to calculate values and divide it amongst the party. It makes a certain amount of sense that the dragon is the character most interested in counting money. By general consent we also keep an extra share on the side for party expenses. Guess who also carries that extra share? Usually I just use a little 'creative math' when dividing loot, diverting some funds to myself and another favorite character. All in all I haven't embezzled very much money, at least not enough to send up any red flags in or out of character, probably less than a thousand overall. It's as I told them, if I do it right they'd never notice.

 

[Numion]

If its in chaacter, I dont see any reason why not. If the character isnt to be trusted, well, they arent to be trusted, and eventually the other characters will probably find out. Artificial restrictions on character actions "for the benefit of the party" or whatever really ruin any semblance of realism and enjoyment of a game for me. It would be like saying "ok, the Neutral Good guy and the Neutral Evil guy have to get along because youre the PCs." Let what happens, happen. Id expect actual consequences from the actions, however, whether its getting beaten up a bit, yelled at, or thrown out of the party, depending on the strength of friendships (or lack thereof) of the characters in the party. Id especially get really ticked off if a DM ever tried to dictate treasure distrubution to me, as that is something TOTALLY out of the DMs hands, on the same level as telling me how to play my character.

I always disliked the idea "I'm just playing my character .. he's a lone wolf". It just disrupts the game. A line has to be drawn - embezzling party funds can be ok, but bringing in evil characters and "just roleplaying" them might not be a good idea. Or bringing in characters that go against the D&D idea of adventuring as a group. Those can be fun once in a while, though.

When I started giving out xp for roleplaying, one player who never got any started to whine and argued "I'm roleplaying it to the hilt .. my character is of the silent type, he let's his weapons do the talking". Sometimes those explanations are just a cop out for not trying to work for the game, just trying to say.

Most of the problems of character personality can be worked out in-game, but some are better metagamed.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I always disliked the idea "I'm just playing my character .. he's a lone wolf". It just disrupts the game. A line has to be drawn - embezzling party funds can be ok, but bringing in evil characters and "just roleplaying" them might not be a good idea. Or bringing in characters that go against the D&D idea of adventuring as a group. Those can be fun once in a while, though.

When I started giving out xp for roleplaying, one player who never got any started to whine and argued "I'm roleplaying it to the hilt .. my character is of the silent type, he let's his weapons do the talking". Sometimes those explanations are just a cop out for not trying to work for the game, just trying to say.

Most of the problems of character personality can be worked out in-game, but some are better metagamed.

What about my example? My character concept was not one that would typically be considered disruptive, but all of the other players were evil in disguise, so I wound up being the one who embezzled.