In-game debates and rules disputes: What do you do about them?

[ThirdWizard]

Do you honestly think a DM should not be free to make rules? What about rule-calls?

I've got a huge House Rules document, so I wholeheartily agree that the DM can make House Rules. I encourage it. I think House Rules are a great addition to a game and can give it flavor if the DM is a good world-builder/developer type. I just think that the DM should tell the players these rules before the game.

As for rule calls, as long as there is some slide room, sure. Also if it isn't important I probably won't say anything because it isn't important. But, so far the examples are pretty far from those. Charging doesn't allow turning and magic missiles hit ethereal targets. These arn't rules-calls, they're alterations thrown in during gameplay.

A better example might be one of the oft-discussed rules that people can't seem to agree on. Lances on horseback, Hide in Plain Sight in darkness, flanking with a ranged weapon, etc. If there's leeway for another interprietation no matter how much I disagree, then that's fine. The DM is the final arbiter in these kind of situations. But House Rules shouldn't be one of these.

 

[IcyCool]

I just think that the DM should tell the players these rules before the game.

So you've never had an occurance where you had to create a house rule mid-game? Never run into a circumstance that wasn't covered by the rules?

 

[ThirdWizard]

So you've never had an occurance where you had to create a house rule mid-game? Never run into a circumstance that wasn't covered by the rules?

We actually stop the game and discuss the implications of the House Rule during gameplay if it is that important. Then after the game, we have a look at it again, and decide if we were right in our decision, chaning it if necessary. I wouldn't reccomend this to others, however. Like I said, I run much more a democracy game than most other people. These discussions have never taken more than two minutes at the very very most. Last session we applied a house rule to flame strike, actually, mid-game, and I wasn't DMing this particular session (one-off game). It took around 30 seconds to talk it over and change it.

As for the second part. I can't think of any circumstances not covered by the rules.

EDIT: It doesn't happen often. I don't think it has happend before this in the last 4 or 5 months. That's one reason we can handle it this way.

 

[DonTadow]

I would like to see what sort of an uproar there will be if a police officer walks into a pub, grabs a guy and tosses him into a car and procede to arrest him for DWI.

"Sorry. The rules changed this second. You are under arrest for DWI. The reason is that you were in a pub. It doesn't matter if you didn't drink or even this car isn't yours (which remind me, you are under arrest for breaking and entering as well) or the car isn't even started. The penalty for DWI is death. That started a second ago too. Good-bye."

*bang*


Don't tell me that the above scenario is not the same as a DM changing things to suit himself willy-nilly, without telling the player beforehand.

As hillarious as that scenerio is to picture in my head, you have a valid point and i agree thats what happens when the dm makes up complete rules at the spur of the moment and doesnt even hae a valid explation.

ON the way home i was explaining this thread to my girlfriend, and told her about the charge around an arch rule and she (the engineer that she is)made a valid point, perhaps it was an interpretation problem, not a rule problem. Perhaps the dm interprets arched staircases as a straight line. SHe says it is impossible to come up with homerules for every interpreation of something. If a moving object is moving around a curve his speed will not change thus allowing for the charge to continue. It's not a 90 degree turn but a gradual turn around the corner.

I guess there is some math to back this up but it was beyond my comprehension (just a writer).

 

[ThirdWizard]

You can start taking into consideration the curviture of space-time because of the mass of the planet. But then I have a general rule that when you have to start asking physics questions or biology questions or whatnot, you've gone too far and its time to step back and look at things in a much more simple way. So it should be a straight line as far as the game-board is concerned, as per the rules. <-- that is an interprietation

 

[DonTadow]

You can start taking into consideration the curviture of space-time because of the mass of the planet. But then I have a general rule that when you have to start asking physics questions or biology questions or whatnot, you've gone too far and its time to step back and look at things in a much more simple way. So it should be a straight line as far as the game-board is concerned, as per the rules. <-- that is an interprietation

That's why I told my girlfriend to keep all her smartsy partsy engineering logic to herself and leave dm'n to us brainless beerguzzling men

::disclaimer- Don DM does not believe that DMing is only for men, and fully supports female dms. His girlfriend is also a dm and would kill him if she saw the above comment.

 

[ThirdWizard]

::disclaimer- Don DM does not believe that DMing is only for men, and fully supports female dms. His girlfriend is also a dm and would kill him if she saw the above comment.

On a completely unrelated topic what might be the email address of your girlfriend? Also, again completely unrelated, would she click on a link given to her in an anonymous email assuming the link was to a generally regarded benign website?

 

[apesamongus]

What if he started a new campaign with a new game system but didn't tell you what it was. Would you still trust him?

I wouldn't be playing if I didn't know the rules, and I don't care about what happens in games I'm not in.

Do you honestly think a DM should not be free to make rules? What about rule-calls?

In my group, we reach consensus on rule-calls. And if it results in a change from player expectations, then we'll often have to ret-con the events to preserve fairness.

I think the question of trust is a red herring. I can totally trust anyone I play with to TRY to make everything fair and fun, but trying and succeeding are different things.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Just a point:

In my experience, roleplaying without knowledge of the rules has always lead to an awful lot of
"can I do X?
"yes, but it means Y"
"what about Z?"
"If you do A first"
"how about...?"

Even if the rules are totally seamless and modeled on "how things work in the real world", there's always someone who knows more about how things work in the real world, and often that person isn't the DM.

 

[Caeleddin]

DonTadow - Your GF is correct IF there is a rope tying the charging minotaur to the centre of the circle he is running around. It is the tension of the rope that makes him run in the circle. If there is no rope, he will shoot of at a 90 degree angle to the centre of the circle.

Try and experiment: Twirl a string with a weight at one hand over your head. Let it go. It will not continue in the circle. It will go off at a 90 degree angle (less drag) to you.

This is the basics of centrifugal force, one of the most basic of physical parameters.

Running in a circle invariably needs a force moving the runner towards the centre of the circle. Otherwise, the runner will run in a straight line. Newton's Laws of Motion predicts this and excludes any other interpretation of it.

Sorry. The engineer in me reared its ugly head