In Game/Out of Game Issues

[ThaDium]

So, I'm having some issues with another player. We've only had 4 games, and he's driving me nuts. Basically it boils down to the fact that he's constantly thowing out caustic insults cleverly disguised as witty barbs. He does this in a manner that makes it unclear if they are in or out of game. He'll start ripping on my PC while the characters are together, but then continue to do so even when our PC's are in seperate places. I'm taking the insults personally because if he's not there in game to insult my PC, I assume he's insulting me. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!

There is also a game play philosophy issue here.

My view is that the player and the DM are on the same team and I’m supposed to help the DM as much as I can to bring about a good game from all involved. That means I tend to be very proactive and, so long as it makes sense, I chase down plots and NPC’s whether or not there’s something in it for my character.

My impression of his philosophy is that he takes an adversarial role with the DM but at the same time expects the DM to entertain him by throwing out plots until one comes by that he likes or thinks he can get something out of and then he follows it.

Neither of these styles is right or wrong, and I don’t think they’re the main cause of my frustrations. Though, I think they may be playing into his lack of enjoyment. It is my impression that he was feeling overshadowed by my gaming style. It’s even possible he thought I was trying to hog the limelight. So, I’ve tried toned it down.

Anybody have a similar experirence that can help me out on this?

Oh, and up until recently I was the DM for a year and a half. This is the first time we've PCed together.

Thanks,
ThaDium

 

[Piratecat]

I had the same problem. After talking to the player didn't help, I spoke to the DM about it and expressed my frustration. The DM happened to agree with me (not necessarily a given in these cases) and asked the player to tone it down.

Unfortunately, in my case the problem was never really solved until the DM kicked the guy out of the game. . . after which I started to have a lot more fun.

 

[Thanee]

Some people are not meant to game together...

I'd just talk to him about it and if it doesn't help, well...

Bye
Thanee

 

[PJ-Mason]

Thanee beat me to it. Talk the guy you are having a problem with. Asking the DM to solve a problem that may or may not be a personal situation between the two of you isn't going to help. There is a good chance he doesn't even know you are bothered. The two of you don't seem to have a good connection, so i'd just come straight out and talk to him about it. If no one else in the group is having a problem, you may be over-reacting. Maybe they aren't caustic insults diguised as witty barbs. Maybe they are just witty barbs. If you ask him to stop it, his response will probably tell you all you need to know about what he is thinking.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Follow the steps, as needed:

Step 1: Talk to the player privately.

Step 2: Talk to the player publicly (in front of the other players).

Step 3: Talk to the DM privately.

Step 4: Him or you. Somebody has to go.

If it's bothering you, get the balls to do something about it. People aren't mind readers and most guys are willing to put up with taunts and barbs to a certain degree. Once you've made it known it's unacceptable to you, the onus is the person in question to change his behaviour. If he doesn't, that's when the other players and DM need to step in. If that doesn't work, it's time for either you to leave or him to be booted. At that point, you usually find out who is valued more by the other players and DM.

Until you stand up and say "enough", it will continue as others will probably think it's not that big a deal...

 

[tonym]

Well...here's some wacky advice that JUST MIGHT WORK!

Step 1: Assume that whatever insult this guy throws-out is always directed 'to' your PC 'from' his PC--never directed at 'you.'

Step 2: Whenever you hear an insult aimed at your PC, proceed to Step 4.

Step 3: Wait patiently, like a cobra. The moment will come...

Step 4: Having heard an insult, say loudly and clearly, "I spit on his character's boots and call him a WIMP." After you have repeated this phrase several times over several hours, he and everybody there will get the picture that he's trying to provoke you and that you are noting it. If this guy's a normal person, he will desist after hearing your response a few times. If not, skip Step 5 and proceed to Step 6.

Step 5: All is well. Resume having fun!! Do not proceed to Step 6.

Step 6: Have your PC take offense to what his PC says, have your PC draw his weapon and attack. Fight to the death.

Tony

 

[msd]

There is also a game play philosophy issue here.

My view is that the player and the DM are on the same team and I’m supposed to help Rob as much as I can to bring about a good game from all involved. That means I tend to be very proactive and, so long as it makes sense, I chase down plots and NPC’s whether or not there’s something in it for my character.

My impression of his philosophy is that he takes an adversarial role with the DM but at the same time expects the DM to entertain him by throwing out plots until one comes by that he likes or thinks he can get something out of and then he follows it.

I had an issue like this and for me (and this is just me...YMMV) this was a big issue.

As a player, I tend to be willing to be led by the nose a little bit. While I don't *think* I metagame, I like to believe that plots are put in front of me to follow. Having said that, I think that a good player will be able to evaluate the main plot from what is likely to be a side quest and will use his/her discretion wisely, but the same general point remains - plots are there to be followed. That is what the DM has prepared. This is the story that he or she is most ably going to be able to tell and, as a result, that is where you're most likely to have the most fun...

The player of whom I speak just seemed to revel in seeing how quickly the DM could think on his feet. Picking locks of non-descript buildings...forcing long, drawn-out conversations on commoners in the street with obviously no relation to the plot. Intentionally wandering off what would appear to be a well-worn path just for the hell of it...

For me, it just completely threw off the pacing of the game and made things no fun. What should have been a dramatic moment to moment story just became a chore.

I spoke with the DM a couple of times about it, and while the DM understood and agreed, he was just really not a confrontational kind of guy and didn't feel like he could impose on the player to change his style.

I can certainly appreciate that, but the game just wasn't fun. I stayed around until the end of the mini-quest and then got out...life's too short and free time is too valuable to be playing games that aren't fun.

MHO...YMMV.

Matt

 

[ThaDium]

What I've already done:

I left out the steps I've taken to remedy the situation because I didn't want the post to get too long.

I have:

1) spoken to the DM.

2) spoken to another player to get another opinion.

3) conversted with the player over e-mail.

I expect I will be speaking with him in person later in the week.

Btw, Orgogk:
"If it's bothering you, get the balls to do something about it."

I take offense to you inferring that I have no balls. I spit on your boots and call you a whimp.

Thanks for the help guys, I mostly just wanted to make sure I wasn't the only one to encounter this.

Hasta,
ThaDium

 

[Turanil]

If it was a case of DM vs player I would just say: "you are not meant to play together". However, since it is player vs player, it's much more delicate. There is no reason why it is you who should leave the group. Of course, it is just so easy to suggest to be firm. To tell him firmly that enough is enough and now you are not going to tolerate his insults anymore. ALSO: there is no reason your character should tolerate the insults of his character!! Remember that in a medieval like world, one would be much more prone to take violent action to defend his honor than in our modern world where we either ignore or attempt "a Diplomacy check".

In any case this is a bad player, someone who doesn't understand that players and DM are here to have fun and entertainment. As a DM I wouldn't tolerate such a player in my group. (But I would attempt "a Diplomacy check rather than take the arms... )

 

[The Shaman]

My impression of his philosophy is that he takes an adversarial role with the DM but at the same time expects the DM to entertain him by throwing out plots until one comes by that he likes or thinks he can get something out of and then he follows it.

The player of whom I speak just seemed to revel in seeing how quickly the DM could think on his feet. Picking locks of non-descript buildings...forcing long, drawn-out conversations on commoners in the street with obviously no relation to the plot. Intentionally wandering off what would appear to be a well-worn path just for the hell of it...

For me, it just completely threw off the pacing of the game and made things no fun. What should have been a dramatic moment to moment story just became a chore.

I'm pretty tolerant of player and character quirks, but too often this behavior goes beyond quirky and becomes troublesome - I've kicked a couple of players to the curb over the years when their IG/OOG actions are clearly intended to be disruptive.

It's one thing to have a character who is self-directed, initiating action without waiting for the GM to drop a hook in front of the party - lawd knows my PCs tend to be that way - but it's another thing to kill NPCs at random, cause intraparty strife (when its clear that the other players aren't interesed in that style of play), treat every town like a dungeon to be looted, and so on. It's also disruptive to challenge every GM ruling no matter how minor, blatantly and pervasively metagame, or create hard feelings among the other players for one's personal amusement.

Talking to the GM privately would be my first recourse if I was a player in this game - if the GM either doesn't see a problem or doesn't choose to confront it, then it may be more difficult to ask the player to settle down without the GM's backing. In any case, I play games to relax and stretch my imagination, not to feel stressed - if I don't like playing with someone and we can't come to a mutual agreement on how the group will play, then one of us is leaving.