In my wishlist: Minions

[vagabundo]

+1 for minions. I'd prefer a few different types or some additional rules, the tougher minion house rules with the damage threshold work best, I feel.

 

[Hassassin]

Minions are a good idea in the sense of weak creatures you can encounter in masses, but still are a threat.

Minions as implemented in 4e seem like a bit of a kludge. The problem that creatures much weaker than you stop being at all dangerous has to have a more elegant solution than changing those creatures from normal creatures (when you encounter them at level 1-3) to use different mechanics (when you encounter them at level 7-10).

 

[Vicar In A Tutu]

I really like minions, especially when the party is infiltrating/sneaking an enemy camp/fortress/city, etc. Before, it was basically impossible to one-shot a guard with non-magical means, as the guard sometimes/usually had more hp than the player's could deal with in 1 attack (even with sneak attack). This lead to the party being extremely nervous about trying, so they prefered to do it with magic (some sort of paralyse or sleep-effect). With minions, there is a social contract between the DM and the players: When the DM describes the guard (for example) as "drowsy, poorly equiped, with a way of holding the longsword that indicates unfamiliarity with the weapon", the players know the guard is a minion. If I describe the guard as "you instantly recognize the face of Lord Araldar, Master of Thule", the players know the guard is not a minion.

As a DM, I also love sometimes using encounters that flood the players with enemy creatures: Hordes of ghouls, etc.

So: Yay to minions!

 

[Knowledge Checks]

I wrote a blog post yesterday talking about Minions in regard to a rule I found in the 1st Edition Player's Handbook.

I like Minions, but I think 4e gave them too many stats. They don't need a full write up, just a few quick notes. Something like...

Goblin, AC 16, Attack +3, Damage 5.
Special: When two or more goblins attack the same target they all have combat advantage against that target.

For 4e you would treat their 16 AC as all their defenses (Fort, Reflex, Will). They don't need stats or different listings for melee and range attacks.

 

[kinem]

I'd rather do away with minions. They just don't make any sense, even in a non-simulation game and are either easy to manage (several AE chars in party) or a royal pain (no AE chars in party).

• Design to-hit to allow lower level creatures to have more than a 5% chance to hit
• Design the game so higher level creatures can quickly dispatch lower level creatures (no need for minions), Maybe just high damage output vs low HP (Hopefully monster HP isn't as high in 5e)

This removes the need for minions and also gives lower level creatures a chance to cause resource wear on higher level creatures, with still the chance of a large number lower level creatures being a threat. I never liked that a higher level creature, with high defenses, is essentially immune to lower level (~8+ levels lower) creatures.

I completely agree.

4e-style minions are a deal breaker for me; no way I'd play a game that has them, if there are any other games to play.

 

[Aramax]

I've been toying around with the idea of a "kill defence". Basically, if you make an attack roll that hits that defence, the monster dies immediately. This solves one half of the minion problem in that it allows high-level PCs to one-shot low-level monsters.

The other half, allowing low-level monsters to remain a threat to high-levelPCs, I still haven't got a satisfying way to handle.

The way to do this is to use a modified swarm.This way you can have an epic fight w/ huge numbers of baddies,Ive done this in every version of D&D/Pathfinder and is very satisfying

 

[Pilgrim]

While I was never really sold on the concept of Minions, I do think that they would make a nice addition to the Core MM. Perhaps a small section/chapter dedicated to Minions and how to convert standard monsters to minions for those that want to use them.

Cool.

 

[Zaukrie]

I love minions. Love them. Really want them in the game. And swarms too.

 

[Vicar In A Tutu]

I completely agree.

4e-style minions are a deal breaker for me; no way I'd play a game that has them, if there are any other games to play.

I don't get this. I've been running a 4E campaign for the last 2 years, and I've used minions maybe ten times. As a DM, it is extremely easy to not use them at all. A game that has minions as an optional tool for the DM, that would be a deal breaker for you? Bizarre. It strikes me that there are many people that have very absolutist attitudes. "What, 5E would have seperate flat-footed and touch AC values? That is a complete deal breaker." "Are you saying that 5E wouldn't allow for the strength value modifier to added 1.5 times as a bonus on damage rolls when weilding two-handed weapons? Count me out."

 

[kinem]

I don't get this. I've been running a 4E campaign for the last 2 years, and I've used minions maybe ten times. As a DM, it is extremely easy to not use them at all. A game that has minions as an optional tool for the DM, that would be a deal breaker for you?

They break suspension of disbelief by using different rules from normal, particularly by the fact that a minion can never be wounded (he is either untouched or dead). They're just a big F-U to simulationism.

If the DM doesn't use them, then his game doesn't have them. So I'd play his game instead of a game with a DM that does, given the choice. But just because you can fix something by house ruling it doesn't mean that having it in the core rules isn't a problem.

This is by no means the first time I've posted critical views on minions, or most aspects of 4E for that matter. The difference now is that I'm not bashing 4E, I'm just stating my views on what 5E should be like. If 5E is going to attract me, it will not resemble 4E. Of course, for many people the opposite is true. It remains to be seen what compromises might be reached or which constituency is really more numerous.