5E In our last session... some bits and bobs.

dnd4vr

Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!
Happy New Year everyone!

Well, I was thinking about our last session and wanted from POV from other people. We already played and "ruled" about things at the time, but I am interested in how you might have done things differently since item #1 led to #2 and then #3.

1. A character lost his eyes (I won't go into details, it was grusome) and is now blinded. Our DM decided only a Regenerate spell would restore his eyesight, but I was thinking maybe Lesser Restoration might do it. After all, it removes a condition, and Blindness is one. Also, Cure Blindness was only 3rd level in prior editions, so Lesser Restoration is more on par with that level. But the DM decided Lesser Restoration would not work on this blindness since the character actually lost his eyes (not just his sight).

2. Now, since Regenerate is 7th level, which we didn't have access to. Our druid offered to use Reincarnate to create a new body for the blinded character. The new form is created, so it stands to reason that the new body would have its eyes. The blinded character killed himself (yeah, drastic, I know...) and was reincarnated from a human to a high elf.

3. This prompted another player whose character lost his arm (he was a TWF fighter/rogue) to do the same, regaining his arm (now her arm LOL!), and becoming a drow elf from a half-orc.

Of course, having a character kill themselves to gain a new body is pretty extreme, so I am curious on what people think about it all.
 

cbwjm

I can add a custom title.
I can't imagine a character casually killing themselves to get a new body but it does work.
 

Oofta

Title? I don't need no stinkin' title.
Well, if you have a campaign where people are regularly losing body parts and eyeballs, having other shenanigans is par for the course. In my own campaign people have been maimed - but for all practical purposes it didn't affect their ability to function as they intended.

In my campaign, coming back from the dead is not that simple. Someone killing themselves? It may not even be possible and would probably be an evil act and they'd become an NPC. I don't want to glorify suicide, even in a game.

Instead I would have had them spend the thousand gold to hire someone to cast the spell for them.
 

dnd4vr

Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!
First, people don't regularly lose body parts. Its the first time in over a year of playing it happened (after the party was captured by drow). A wizard blinded, a fighter/rogue losing his right arm, a sorcerer with his tongue removed, and worse.

So, when I said we didn't have access, I mean not only could we not cast it but we had no one who could have, even if we offered to pay them.

Now, this brings up another point for Reincarnation. The DM feels you have a new body, but ruled you have the exact same ability scores. IMO a new body would require rolling new scores, etc. but that might have been removed for the sake of simplicity.
 

Oofta

Title? I don't need no stinkin' title.
The spell isn't particularly clear what "retains capabilities" means, but I agree. At the very least they need to apply racial bonuses of the new race after removing the old bonuses.
 

Oofta

Title? I don't need no stinkin' title.
Oh, and I guess if removing body parts was part of the game I'd also have some way of recovering, perhaps with a cost other than gold, perhaps not right away. Especially if this was not the result of a series of mistakes on the part of the PCs.

But it's not my story to tell. I just wouldn't tell it that way. :)
 

dnd4vr

Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!
The spell isn't particularly clear what "retains capabilities" means, but I agree. At the very least they need to apply racial bonuses of the new race after removing the old bonuses.
Yeah, we reverse-engineered the scores to the originals and then "re-built" the character applying the feats, ASIs, and racial modifiers.

Oh, and I guess if removing body parts was part of the game I'd also have some way of recovering, perhaps with a cost other than gold, perhaps not right away. Especially if this was not the result of a series of mistakes on the part of the PCs.

But it's not my story to tell. I just wouldn't tell it that way. :)
Sadly, we could have played with the challenges the loses created, but one character was taken by the drow and any chance of likely recovery of her demands not only speed but also that we are as strong as possible, even if it means extreme measures.
 

Prakriti

Hi, I'm a Mindflayer, but don't let that worry you
1. A character lost his eyes (I won't go into details, it was grusome) and is now blinded. Our DM decided only a Regenerate spell would restore his eyesight, but I was thinking maybe Lesser Restoration might do it. After all, it removes a condition, and Blindness is one. Also, Cure Blindness was only 3rd level in prior editions, so Lesser Restoration is more on par with that level. But the DM decided Lesser Restoration would not work on this blindness since the character actually lost his eyes (not just his sight).
I agree with your DM here. Lesser Restoration would restore sight to blind eyes. It wouldn't restore the eyes themselves.

2. ... The new form is created, so it stands to reason that the new body would have its eyes.
Yeah, I don't see why not.

Of course, having a character kill themselves to gain a new body is pretty extreme, so I am curious on what people think about it all.
I'd think some characters would object to the process for some reason or another. If the players aren't even considering their characters' religious/personal/spiritual stances on reincarnation, then yeah, it's pretty munchkinny behavior, and I would find it tiresome as a DM.

Some questions that arise...
1. What are the gods' stance on suicide in your world? Would they allow a soul that committed suicide to reincarnate?
2. Does a character reincarnated as a drow interest Lolth in any way? Does she consider that character her property now? Did she "allow" the reincarnation to take place? Does she get the character's soul after its death? Does she consider the whole thing an affront to her? Is she now plotting the character's death?
3. What does the druid's circle and patron god think of this behavior? Is it a misuse of the druid's powers?

On the other hand, Reincarnate requires a 1,000 gp spell component, so I'm not sure I'd try to restrict or punish this behavior in any way. In most campaigns, the cost is punitive enough already.
 

Inchoroi

Explorer
Happy New Year everyone!

Well, I was thinking about our last session and wanted from POV from other people. We already played and "ruled" about things at the time, but I am interested in how you might have done things differently since item #1 led to #2 and then #3.

1. A character lost his eyes (I won't go into details, it was grusome) and is now blinded. Our DM decided only a Regenerate spell would restore his eyesight, but I was thinking maybe Lesser Restoration might do it. After all, it removes a condition, and Blindness is one. Also, Cure Blindness was only 3rd level in prior editions, so Lesser Restoration is more on par with that level. But the DM decided Lesser Restoration would not work on this blindness since the character actually lost his eyes (not just his sight).

2. Now, since Regenerate is 7th level, which we didn't have access to. Our druid offered to use Reincarnate to create a new body for the blinded character. The new form is created, so it stands to reason that the new body would have its eyes. The blinded character killed himself (yeah, drastic, I know...) and was reincarnated from a human to a high elf.

3. This prompted another player whose character lost his arm (he was a TWF fighter/rogue) to do the same, regaining his arm (now her arm LOL!), and becoming a drow elf from a half-orc.

Of course, having a character kill themselves to gain a new body is pretty extreme, so I am curious on what people think about it all.
As the DM, I'd probably have somewhere that has a scroll of regenerate. Alternatively, some weird magic item--like, a drow had a set of eyeballs that were enchanted by an illithid that allowed them to function as eyeballs for anyone that wears them but they're horrible wiggling things rather than eyes--that I'd put nearby, somewhere else in the dungeon or area, where they can be found. My players would trust me enough that there'd be some way near that might be able to help.

I'd probably be a little miffed about the suicide thing, but also probably wouldn't stop them. I might choose a specific race, depending on the characters; like, if you're a cleric and you kill yourself to reincarnate, your god decides to punish you by putting you in a totally inappropriate race. But I doubt it. Depends on my mood that day, I guess.
 

Oofta

Title? I don't need no stinkin' title.
As the DM, I'd probably have somewhere that has a scroll of regenerate. Alternatively, some weird magic item--like, a drow had a set of eyeballs that were enchanted by an illithid that allowed them to function as eyeballs for anyone that wears them but they're horrible wiggling things rather than eyes--that I'd put nearby, somewhere else in the dungeon or area, where they can be found. My players would trust me enough that there'd be some way near that might be able to help.

I'd probably be a little miffed about the suicide thing, but also probably wouldn't stop them. I might choose a specific race, depending on the characters; like, if you're a cleric and you kill yourself to reincarnate, your god decides to punish you by putting you in a totally inappropriate race. But I doubt it. Depends on my mood that day, I guess.
I could definitely see giving the PCs the option of really odd solutions. Like there's someone who can graft on temporary body parts but he doesn't have great supplies at the moment. So slug eyes on the end of stalks, maybe a tentacle for the arm. They aren't permanent, but enough to get by until they can be regenerated.

But ... physically disabling a PC, especially if the player did nothing wrong would not sit well with me as a player. I get it, different strokes for different folks and all, life is not fair. That doesn't mean a game can't be fair; if I take a gamble and I lose and the penalty is appropriate that's on me. But if that's not then I'm not going to enjoy the campaign.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
I'd probably be a little miffed about the suicide thing...
Yes, but then... as the GM, you introduced a new kind of injury for which the PCs had no other way of handling, and apparently purposefully targeted them in ways specially tailored to incapacitate the individual characters in maximally annoying ways. So, they are probably pretty miffed at you, too.

If you didn't check that they had an extreme, but viable solution on hand... you should be miffed at who, exactly?

I think a character going through the literal pain of death to save their friend seems a pretty heroic approach to the issue, not a cheesy one.
 

dnd4vr

Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!
But ... physically disabling a PC, especially if the player did nothing wrong would not sit well with me as a player. I get it, different strokes for different folks and all, life is not fair. That doesn't mean a game can't be fair; if I take a gamble and I lose and the penalty is appropriate that's on me. But if that's not then I'm not going to enjoy the campaign.
Well, a bit of backstory:

We encountered the drow (a priestess, wizard, two elite warriors) in conference with some giants (2 hill giants, 2 ogres, and a cave bear). Now, I am the only real experience player, so I cautioned the others against it, but even after the DM emphasized this was about a 50/50 chance of success or TPK, the others out-voted me. Honestly, he gave the others about as much warning as he could and they decided to risk it anyway.

We nearly won, even after a yochlol and shadow demon joined the fight, but in the end the last character standing (the captured high elf) was forced to drop her weapon after the drow threatened to kill the downed characters.

After torture and such, we managed to break out of prison, orchestrated an uprising, and freed ourselves. However, the high elf was taken by the wizard as a sacrifice to Lolth for the death of the priestess we killed. Now, we are hunting after them to rescue her before she is sacrificed.

So, in a very real sense the DM didn't "punish" us after he warning us about the risk, but played out the drow was he felt they would be, maiming and torturing us. We accept that as part of the game and know it was our fault for trying to defeat a force so clearly equal to us in strength. Like I said, we nearly won out... but the adventure goes on.
 

dnd4vr

Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!
I think a character going through the literal pain of death to save their friend seems a pretty heroic approach to the issue, not a cheesy one.
This is pretty much it. If we didn't have to act immediately, we would deal with the problems we have until a less drastic solution arose.
 

ccs

40th lv DM
#1, 2, & 3 seem fine to me.

My initial thoughts on the stats after reincarnate go to re-roll Str/Dex/Con, keep Int/Wis/Char, keep anychanges from ASI/Feats, apply new racial mods.
But I can see keeping Str/Dex/Con as was for simplicity.

Anyways, that stat thing is something I might have to actually consider in an upcoming session.
The parties 1/2elf cleric has been having a tryst with a Vistani girl & has thoughts of marrying her. He's not impressed her Grandmother, the matriarch of the clan, though. And he's learned from both his lover & the Grandmother that any marriage will only be allowed with a human male of Vistani blood.
One of the players suggested that maybe the Druids could reincarnate the cleric as a human vistani....
And so off the went to confer with the druids.
The plan is to ritually sacrifice the cleric & reincarnate him.

Um, OK..... Well at least I have an idea of what to write for concerning the next several sessions.....
I mean, I was envisioning developing one of about 5 different hooks I've already planted. But I suppose this tangent will do.
 

Stormonu

Hero
Seems to me restoring eyesight should be easier than raising someone from the dead. I probably would have ruled Greater Restoration (or possibly a custom researched 4th level spell) would have allowed the eyes to be restored.
 

oreofox

Explorer
Regenerate is pretty much the only spell that can repair lost body parts. While blinded is a condition, I'd say the context of how the condition was gained would determine what would be the appropriate act to remove the condition. Though, shunting that kind of ability behind a 7th level spell, when such injuries can occur so much earlier, annoys me. I'd probably see about introducing a lesser regenerate at 3rd or 4th level that can do the same as the full regenerate, but on a weaker/lesser degree. Small body parts no bigger than a hand or foot.

As for the whole reincarnate thing: I don't see anything wrong with it, honestly. If knowing the body I occupy is pretty much damaged beyond repair (finding a regenerate spell would be rather difficult, which the affected player may not want to wait that long for their character to be "fixed"), and I knew I'd come back, then killing myself wouldn't be that difficult of a choice. In a way, it's better than tossing that character for a new one and the DM trying to figure out how to integrate the new character into the game.
 

Len

Prodigal Member
I don't think you're supposed to re-roll the ability scores, just change the racial adjustments. The rules say:
It retains the capabilities it had in its original form, except it exchanges its original race for the new one and changes its racial traits accordingly.
To me that says the only thing that changes is the racial adjustments to the ability scores.
 

dnd4vr

Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!
Seems to me restoring eyesight should be easier than raising someone from the dead. I probably would have ruled Greater Restoration (or possibly a custom researched 4th level spell) would have allowed the eyes to be restored.
Yeah, I agree on this completely, but the *Cure Blindness" at 3rd level is gone. Of course, the 1e DMG does say that even in 1e it wasn't supposed restore lost organs (such as the case here).

I don't think you're supposed to re-roll the ability scores, just change the racial adjustments. The rules say:

To me that says the only thing that changes is the racial adjustments to the ability scores.
I think most people agree that is how the RAW work and it is what we did as well.
 

aco175

Adventurer
I don't really get into torture other than some generic "They torture you trying to get information." but no specifics. Some of the players go a bit more but we try to keep things PG13.

I also tend to give outs when things go bad or place things that may solve problems. I might place a potion of flying or climbing in a place they could find that will help them later or a scroll of regeneration/ raise dead at some point in the dungeon if the PCs are likely to die. It goes to the point of havine a player sitting for a night while the rest of the players bring his body back to town or such.

I did have an elf with one arm in a game but he also had a metal arm I stole from Dragonlance. I gave him some powers that went with it. I could see me giving something like this to a PC.
 

Advertisement

Top