In Place of Chainmail?

[mmadsen]

Well, Wizards just gave Chainmail the axe, and no one's surprised. I didn't follow Chainmail closely, and I didn't buy any of the miniatures, so I'm not upset, but I am wondering what happened. What should Wizards have done, and what could they do now instead of Chainmail?

 

[mmadsen]

From what I can tell, the big dog in the fantasy miniature wargaming world is Warhammer. To go head-to-head with Warhammer (and Games Workshop), you'd need an edge. A D&D miniature wargame sounds like it would have that edge. You could use your D&D characters in large battles, you could use many of the minis in your regular game -- we could all use a few dozen Orcs, right? -- there's lots of great synergy there.

So why wasn't Chainmail compatible with D&D?

Certainly there are some technical hurdles. Tracking Hit Points for dozens or hundreds of units would be a nightmare, so you'd probably want to replace Hit Points (at least for "mooks") with a "stateless" system, maybe a Fort Save to avoid dying.

And you wouldn't want to deal with movement, Flanking, and Attacks of Opportunity in minute detail. Maybe units would follow strict rules on movement to keep things (pardon the pun) moving.

Would you need a whole new system with new, incompatible rules though?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello mmadsen mate!

We are sort of discussing the same points in this thread:

http://test.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=240468#post240468

 

[mmadsen]

We are sort of discussing the same points in this thread.

Greetings, UK! I was hoping we could discuss Chainmail, mini games, etc., without the magazine bits, the gloomy forecasting, etc.

 

[Ds Da Man]

I also think that the figures themselves were too few for too much. They should have done a plastic minature "cheap" set, that people could afford. Then offer mass sets for a good price. Maybe using a 15mm scale instead of a 25-28mm. Have you ever tried to fit a mass 25mm battle on a small table?

 

[mmadsen]

They should have done a plastic minature "cheap" set, that people could afford.

Doesn't a big set of 25-28 mm Orcs just make sense? Who couldn't use that?

 

[Harlock]

I also think that the figures themselves were too few for too much. They should have done a plastic minature "cheap" set, that people could afford. Then offer mass sets for a good price. Maybe using a 15mm scale instead of a 25-28mm. Have you ever tried to fit a mass 25mm battle on a small table?

I agree on almost all of this. What WotC should have done is what Chris Pramas said they initended to do. After a few months scale up to a full Grand Battle System and it should have been d20 compatible. Skirmish was a poor choice. I also think the minis should have been less focused. By that I mean not so much of one thing. This would have attracted a broader market, not just the mini-gamer or Chainmail market. For instance, I don't use a lot of gnolls in my campaign so why buy a big box o' gnolls? More "character" type minis and monsters with a bigger fanbase would have been a better choice. Can't go wrong with Orcs and Goblins, and yes, I relaize that GW already makes these, but many folks would have gone for a less cartoon-ish more D&D type gobbo. As far as making the game 15mm.. what? Have you ever tried to paint one of those? Anyway, the D&D system was already set up for 25-28mm minis. Of course if WotC didn't do any of that other stuff, why not? Anyway, if they had used a ruleset more compatible with d20 I think it might have done better.

 

[mmadsen]

What WotC should have done is what Chris Pramas said they initended to do. After a few months scale up to a full Grand Battle System and it should have been d20 compatible.

If they (at some point) intended to scale up to a d20-compatible Grand Battle System, why wan't the Not-So-Grand Skirmish System d20-compatible to start with?

If your big advantage is that you've got legions of rabid D&D fans out there, why isn't the mini game compatible with D&D?

For instance, I don't use a lot of gnolls in my campaign so why buy a big box o' gnolls?

Does anyone use a lot of Gnolls? Where the heck do Gnolls come from anyway? (Besides "mommy Gnolls", I mean.) Orcs obviously come from Tolkien. Where do these Hyena guys come from?

More "character" type minis and monsters with a bigger fanbase would have been a better choice. Can't go wrong with Orcs and Goblins, and yes, I relaize that GW already makes these, but many folks would have gone for a less cartoon-ish more D&D type gobbo.

Absolutely. I'm guessing they were trying to differentiate themselves from Games Workshop, but that seems easy enough -- just don't cover everything in spikey bits, lose the insanely huge weapons, etc.

Again, wouldn't you like a box of 25-28 mm Orcs, a box of men-at-arms, a box of Dwarves, a box of Elves, etc.?

Anyway, if they had used a ruleset more compatible with d20 I think it might have done better.

That seems to be the main point, and I don't see why they wouldn't stick to something more compatible. Anyone have an answer?

 

[Ds Da Man]

As far as making the game 15mm.. what? Have you ever tried to paint one of those?


Yea, have you seen Warmaster? They're a 12mm scale, and really not that hard to paint. 25-28mm is great for regular gaming, but you have to have a huge table to support a grand scale D&D battle, and at 2.50-5.00 a figure, and Warmaster 5.00 for like 10 figures, if your doing table top on a large scale, 12-15 is the way to go.

 

[Teflon Billy]

Doesn't a big set of 25-28 mm Orcs just make sense? Who couldn't use that?

I could. I'm continually tempted by the Warhammer orc sets where it's all just body parts and equipment that you can glue together into whatever you need.