In Place of Chainmail?

[Kesh]

I was kind of hoping that a "Sundered Empire Sourcebook" might eventually be produced for D&D Campaigning.

You aren't the only one.

Personally, I'm still hoping to use the Ghostwind Campaign rulebook to run a D&D campaign at some point. The Godswar is a great story to get involved in.

 

[ced1106]

I don't think you can blame Wizards of the Coast then, if they don't consider you their target demographic. A miniatures game aimed at people who don't want any more miniatures? What'll that sell? Maybe one book?

Heh. Well, there **is** that other WotC miniatures book that seems to be selling well w/out the need for a D&D figures line. Some sort of handbook for D&D players. (;

Anyway, several days ago, my FLGS heard a rumor that WK is putting out a new line of figures **directly** into the retail market. Then I hear about the Chainmail II rumors, WK being "a stone's throw away" from WotC HQ, and the words, "random prepainted figures". Several weeks ago, same FLGS hears the rumor that WK wants to build WK large enough to be sold to Hasbro, who, also of course, sells games through retail stores and owns a certain well-known rpg company.

Yes, that sounds absurd to me too. About as ridiculous as slapping the D&D logo on a Saturday morning cartoon or selling a miniatures game that is supposed to topple GW in the hobby gaming market.


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^

 

[mmadsen]

When Chainmail first started, I assumed it would be set in Greyhawk, since that was the default setting for 3E. We were told, however, that Greyhawk "belonged" to the RPGA and was thus off limits.

Ah, interesting!

That's when I conceived the Sundered Empire setting and created the factions. A year or so later the political landscape within WotC had changed, as had the brand/business manager for minis. At that point, I was asked how hard it would be to integrate the Sundered Empire into the WoG. I said, "Well, there's an enormous continent that's basically vacant, so not too hard."

It's always so much more complicated behind the scenes than you'd ever guess...

Thanks for the glimpse.

 

[mmadsen]

Yes, that sounds absurd to me too. About as ridiculous as...selling a miniatures game that is supposed to topple GW in the hobby gaming market.

Certainly Games Workshop controls the fantasy miniature wargaming market right now, but I don't see anything absurd about Hasbro trying to break in with a D&D-themed game. I just don't they went about it right.

What is Games Workshop doing so well that they're unstoppable? First, of course, they're already the big dog in that market, and with positive network externalities being what they are -- you want to play a game with as many other players out there -- they've got quite a grip -- just like D&D in the RPG realm. Second, they put out good product. So good that no one can challenge them? Maybe, but I doubt it.

As Hasbro/Wizards, I would've put out a boxed set with lots of plastic figures at a fairly low price. You need to lower any barriers to entry to your new game. I also would've made it easy to import existing figures and characters into the game. If players don't need to buy your figures to get started, they'll get started more easily. Then they'll buy your product to fill out their armies.

 

[Regdar]

Bah Regdar was looking forward to the Grell too...

 

[Mark]

Again, that, to me, is one of the key strengths of a D&D miniatures game; you can use it with your existing D&D campaign.

(emphasis mine)

No personal offense intended but I have to once again take exception with your choice of words. You characterize a D&D miniatures game as if it already exists and is written in such a way as to be useful with a D&D campaign. It doesn't exist and the same claim, or perhaps rumor, was made about Chainmail prior to its release.

Better to say "Again, that would be one of the strengths of a D&D miniatures game; you would be able to use it with your existing D&D campaign."

When it comes out, if it actually works with the d20 System, I will be convinced. Until then, it might be wise to discontinue referring to it as if it is an actuality, please. The sort of mischaracterization you made is how rumors begin...

 

[Zaruthustran]

When it comes out, if it actually works with the d20 System, I will be convinced. Until then, it might be wise to discontinue referring to it as if it is an actuality, please. The sort of mischaracterization you made is how rumors begin...

Agreed. I think it's interesting that Chris Pramas said that he heard Chainmail 2 *will not* be called "Chainmail."

To me, that's important.

When Chainmail first came out, only old-time gamers or gamer geeks understood the connection to D&D. To Joe Average, it was just another weird name. WotC intentionally made Chainmail *not* like D&D.

That's why Chris's revelation is so important. If this new collectable miniatures game is not called "Chainmail 2"--or "Chainmail" anything--then what is it going to be called?

I think WotC would be very smart to call the game "Dungeons & Dragons: Miniatures". Or some other name that explicitly ties the new game to D&D.

WizKids has an entrenched, technologically superior product (those click bases are genius). The only thing WotC's miniatures game has going for it is the D&D connection. WotC *must* play up that connection. It's the only thing that will make their new game stand out.

Well, except for Price and Quality. I go into that stuff in this thread.

-z

 

[mmadsen]

Better to say "Again, that would be one of the strengths of a D&D miniatures game; you would be able to use it with your existing D&D campaign."

I'm sorry if you felt what I said was ambiguous. When I said "a D&D miniatures game," I thought I was pretty clearly discussing a hypothetical D&D miniatures game and the strengths of mixing D&D and miniatures -- not a specific, actual D&D miniatures game, be it Chainmail or its yet-to-be-released progeny.

When it comes out, if it actually works with the d20 System, I will be convinced.

Your concerns are mine.

 

[Mark]

WotC *must* play up that connection. It's the only thing that will make their new game stand out.

...and not just play it up. It must be large scale D&D if it is to be associated with D&D lest it create an uproar...in my own little mind, in any event.

I'm sorry if you felt what I said was ambiguous. When I said "a D&D miniatures game," I thought I was pretty clearly discussing a hypothetical D&D miniatures game and the strengths of mixing D&D and miniatures -- not a specific, actual D&D miniatures game, be it Chainmail or its yet-to-be-released progeny.

Your concerns are mine.

I'm mopping my forehead in relief that you didn't take my comments personally. Even after writing them, I thought best to tone them down, but resisted the urge lest my meaning seem sugar-coated. I am further relieved that we see eye to eye. Thanks for your understanding.