In which D&D product did Orcus die?

[Nikosandros]

i thot they were in White Dwarf before they made it into the FF.

i'd check but my White Dwarf collection has gone.

The earliest mention of death Knights that I was able to find in WD is from issue #28, but that's a review of Fiend Folio.

 

[Stormonu]

Very interesting. So it is as I thought, Orcus's death takes place on the side lines. I really wonder what the design goal to kill him and replace him with Kiaransalee was?

It's interesting to hear the H-series is so bad. Is it just H4 that is bad or are all of them terrible? I understand the first one is more or less a Battlesystem scenario, but it looks like in H2 and H3 there is more dungeon-delving. Are they good delves?

The delves would be a challenge for characters between about 5th-8th level parties; for 14th+ level characters, they're pretty much a joke. Rarely are the creatures of significant power levels and they generally rely on complex mundane or poor magical strategies that a half-intelligent spellcaster or moderately magically-armed party would render useless.

In short, the designers at that time had NO IDEA how to design high-level challenges. They tend to think that complexity equals a hard challenge, forgetting what high-level spells and magic items can do.

An example - second encounter in the H1 module: three 2HD faerie dragons and twenty 1HD pixies "attack" the group's army camp, primarily with illusions, at night. A light spell (or something with continual light) and dispel magic can destroy the entire encounter - or a single Power Word, Kill (maybe even Sleep or a Fireball) would end it instantly.

 

[Erik Mona]

I'm also pretty sure that H4 includes (as a more or less random Abyssal encounter) a city filled with 1000 liches on Thanatos.

Sigh.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

That's enough bones to attract an Interplanar Dire Dog Convention...

 

[Shemeska]

I'm also pretty sure that H4 includes (as a more or less random Abyssal encounter) a city filled with 1000 liches on Thanatos.

Sigh.

And on that note, I have to give you credit for actually going the extra mile and salvaging the H4 stuff on the Abyss when you worked on FC:I. I would have condemned it to oblivion myself and giggled at its utter exclusion from the lore on Thanatos, but you, Jacobs, etc actually reworked the stuff into something pretty cool considering the tone and content of the wahoo stuff that H4 had. Kudos man. Kudos.

 

[skullking]

I believe it was first mentioned in the 2E Planescape product Planes of Chaos, in the description of the realm Thanatos. Orcus was not mentioned by name. Instead, it was stated that:

"Kiaransalee ... recently wrested this plane from the former Abyssal lord of the undead. That's lord's name is never spoken now, as Kiaransalee has decreed that it must be struck from each monument, slave band, and scroll."​

This is correct. H4 wasn't adopted as WotC Canon, but Planes of Chaos was, and is the firts mention of Orcus' death and his return is confirmed in the 3rd Ed Manual of the Planes. In the Dead Gods adventure there was no definitive conclusion where Orcus returns unless the PCs fail.

 

[catsclaw227]

I believe it was first mentioned in the 2E Planescape product Planes of Chaos, in the description of the realm Thanatos. Orcus was not mentioned by name. Instead, it was stated that:

"Kiaransalee ... recently wrested this plane from the former Abyssal lord of the undead. That's lord's name is never spoken now, as Kiaransalee has decreed that it must be struck from each monument, slave band, and scroll."

This is correct. H4 wasn't adopted as WotC Canon, but Planes of Chaos was, and is the firts mention of Orcus' death and his return is confirmed in the 3rd Ed Manual of the Planes. In the Dead Gods adventure there was no definitive conclusion where Orcus returns unless the PCs fail.

OK, so his death wasn't confirmed by that quote. They never said Orcus, just a hearsay reference to his domain. When was it actually confirmed that Orcus died and how did he get here now? <whisper>I mean... was he ever really even dead?</whisper> <wink,wink? nudge, nudge?>

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

He got better...

Now, he's just pinin' for the fjords.