D&D 3E/3.5 Incantatrix and 3.5

[Thanee]

Hello!

How would you think does the Incantatrix PrC (MoF) fit into the new revised 3.5 rules?

Can it be used as written, or do you think something needs to be changed?

The very powerful Instant Metamagic ability is not as "broken" now, since you can't multiple empower a spell anymore!

What do you think? How would you see the Incantatrix under the 3.5 rules?

Bye
Thanee

 

[ruleslawyer]

Hello!

How would you think does the Incantatrix PrC (MoF) fit into the new revised 3.5 rules?

Can it be used as written, or do you think something needs to be changed?

The very powerful Instant Metamagic ability is not as "broken" now, since you can't multiple empower a spell anymore!

What do you think? How would you see the Incantatrix under the 3.5 rules?

Bye
Thanee

Hi Thanee!

Actually, the MaoF errata (you cannot use Instant Metamagic to raise the effective level of a spell higher than the highest level of spell you can cast) took care of any "brokenness" in that ability.

As for how the incantatrix works under 3.5 rules: In the strictest sense, there's no need to change the class for pure edition-change reasons except to require that the character select barred schools in the fashion of a 3.5 Abjuration specialist wizard rather than a 3.0 specialist. However, I'd say that 3.5 provides an ideal opportunity to rework what is otherwise a cumbersomely-written and overpowered PrC. I'd require any character taking this PrC who is not an Abjuration specialist wizard to select an additional barred school (any except Abjuration or Transmutation) and would require that the character's bonus spells from specialization, if any, be used for Abjuration spells only. I would not give out bonus spells if the character did not have them already; the class is powerful enough without them. In addition, I'd remove the bonus feat at 1st level (otherwise, the class really is a no-brainer). If you do all those things, I'd say the class is balanced just fine; being able to cast a maximized, empowered enervation (say) at 13th level hardly seems overpowered to me.

 

[Thanee]

Actually I meant Improved Metamagic not Instant Metamagic above there!

I'm mainly asking for a Sorcerer/Incantatrix, as this is what I'd like to play (I like the Sorcerers ability to use Metamagic on the fly and therefore the Incantatrix seems like the perfect addition with the extra feats, also the other ablities are quite good ).

However, there is a problem, I've found out recently... 8 ranks of Knowledge (planes), which is a cross-class skill for Sorcerers! Doh!

That will only be possible with the Cosmopolitan feat, I suppose, or is there any other decent way (without spending a feat and losing a spellcaster level)? because having to choose two feats to gain access to the PrC somewhat diminishes the bonus metamagic feat advantage.

Maybe there is another PrC out there with low requirements, which has Knowledge (planes) as a class skills?

Bye
Thanee

 

[ruleslawyer]

Hi Thanee!

Actually I meant Improved Metamagic not Instant Metamagic above there!

Hmm, yes. Imp Metamagic + multiple Empower really was the one thing that I saw as a problem for this class.

I'm mainly asking for a Sorcerer/Incantatrix, as this is what I'd like to play (I like the Sorcerers ability to use Metamagic on the fly and therefore the Incantatrix seems like the perfect addition with the extra feats, also the other ablities are quite good ).

Yes they are!

However, there is a problem, I've found out recently... 8 ranks of Knowledge (planes), which is a cross-class skill for Sorcerers! Doh!

That will only be possible with the Cosmopolitan feat, I suppose, or is there any other decent way (without spending a feat and losing a spellcaster level)? because having to choose two feats to gain access to the PrC somewhat diminishes the bonus metamagic feat advantage.

Maybe there is another PrC out there with low requirements, which has Knowledge (planes) as a class skills?

I'd recommend the Education feat rather than the Cosmopolitan feat, since it covers ALL Knowledge skills rather than just Knowledge (planes). But yeah, "burning" two feats (Education, Iron Will) is sorta required for a sorc/incantatrix. No PrCs that I can think of are really worth it. A really wacky option would be to take a level of wizard(!) rather than the Education feat; this gives you a useful feat (Scribe Scroll) and potential knowledge of all 1st-level spells out there at the cost of a caster level. But otherwise, human Sor6 is the standard choice: Education and Iron Will at 1st level, Extend, Silent, or Still Spell at 3rd level, and Empower at 6th level. You'll still end up with as many as eight metamagic feats when you hit Inc10 (not that you'll really want these all to be metamagic feats, of course!).

 

[Thanee]

Ah, Education is a good idea as well (I definitely don't want to drop a level of spellcasting ability, takes long enough to get the Sorcerer into a decent level - if so I could also choose a Cleric with knowledge domain for one level, but that's not an option).

Gonna take Silent Spell, Extend Spell and probably Quicken Spell + Arcane Preparation plus Heighten Spell (kinda "bad" choice with only Quicken Spell being affected by Improved Metamagic later ) as well as Spell Focus: Enchantment and Improved Initiative. Later also Spell Penetration, of course.

With the specialization thingie, I'm going to drop Evocation and Necromancy (keeping only Light, Magic Missile and False Life, I think... maaaybe Fireball, at least for a while and drop that later).

That should result in a bit nonstandard Sorcerer!

Well... that's the rough plan with feats and such at least...

Bye
Thanee

 

[ruleslawyer]

Ah, Education is a good idea as well (I definitely don't want to drop a level of spellcasting ability, takes long enough to get the Sorcerer into a decent level - if so I could also choose a Cleric with knowledge domain for one level, but that's not an option).

Gonna take Silent Spell, Extend Spell and probably Quicken Spell + Arcane Preparation plus Heighten Spell (kinda "bad" choice with only Quicken Spell being affected by Improved Metamagic later ) as well as Spell Focus: Enchantment and Improved Initiative. Later also Spell Penetration, of course.

With the specialization thingie, I'm going to drop Evocation and Necromancy (keeping only Light, Magic Missile and False Life, I think... maaaybe Fireball, at least for a while and drop that later).

That should result in a bit nonstandard Sorcerer!

Well... that's the rough plan with feats and such at least...

Bye
Thanee

Looks like a good build! I'd really skip Arcane Prep though; by your own admission, it won't really be useful long, and do you really need to quicken spells that often anyway?

 

[AuraSeer]

Hmm, yes. Imp Metamagic + multiple Empower really was the one thing that I saw as a problem for this class.

That's a nonissue in 3.5 anyway, since you cannot apply multiple copies of one metamagic feat. All the tricks with multiple-Empowered or multiple-Extended spells have gone away.

 

[Thanee]

Yes, that's what I've written initially (well if you replace instant by improve at least )... the most powerful (well, broken ) ability is automatically fixed in 3.5.

About Arcane Preparation... I havn't tried this, but I thought the Sorcerer should have enough spell slots to prepare a few quickened spells, which could prove useful.

Bye
Thanee

 

[ruleslawyer]

That's a nonissue in 3.5 anyway, since you cannot apply multiple copies of one metamagic feat. All the tricks with multiple-Empowered or multiple-Extended spells have gone away.

Yes, I know this; that's why I used the word "was." But thanks!

About Arcane Preparation... I havn't tried this, but I thought the Sorcerer should have enough spell slots to prepare a few quickened spells, which could prove useful.

The thing is that by the time quickened spells become usable in any real sense (Sor6/Inc4), you'll already have at least two uses of Instant Metamagic per day, which means two quickened spells per day. You probably won't need more than two quickened 1st-level spells per day at that level. Likewise, as you keep leveling up, and gaining access to higher-level quickened spells, you'll have more instant metamagic with which to quicken those spells for free. As such, the usefulness of Arcane Prep will be limited somewhat.

 

[Thanee]

Err... maybe you have a different version of the PrC than I do, but in my book Instant Metamagic starts at class level 7 of Incantatrix, which is character level 13 for a Sorcerer based one!

Bye
Thanee