Incarnum and Wildshape/Shapeshifting druids Question

[saucercrab]

I'd say they would remain active, regardless if they're bound to chakras. Even though they can take up the slot of magic items, they aren't actual magic items; they're class abilities that can't exist separately like normal equipment. They're more akin to long-duration spells & supernatural abilities. I relate them along the lines to a mage armor spell.

(I have no solid rules to back up the above; it is merely my interpretation of how soulmelds operate. YMMV.)

 

[D.Shaffer]

I just went through the Incarnum book and it doesnt really state one way or the other. That said, it doesnt say they're actually magical items, they're magical effects that occupy item slots and keep items from working.

I'd send it in to Sage Advice and see what they'd say, but I'd rule 'Sure, they can still use it' myself.

 

[Wrathamon]

I agree on the part of if you take a form that doesnt have a slot... like a snake.

You would lose the soulmelds for hands and feet.

That makes sense.

 

[RigaMortus2]

I just went through the Incarnum book and it doesnt really state one way or the other. That said, it doesnt say they're actually magical items, they're magical effects that occupy item slots and keep items from working.

What about on page 49 where it says:

Once shaped, a soulmeld takes on a solid physical form in the shape specified for that particular meld. A shaped soulmeld acts as a normal object that might be worn, such as boots, armor, or a robe except for the following: they cannot be removed from the individual wearing them, they cannot be damaged except as specifically noted and they don't have weight (though they can restrict movement, thus giving an armor check penalty if applicable).

 

[D.Shaffer]

They mimic real items in some ways, but they still arent technically magic items. They're magical effects with a bit of solidity behind them. It would depend on whether you consider this as 'gear' or not. I wouldnt, as it only 'acts like' equipment, it doesnt actually turn into real equipment. I'd also have you consider that meld effects only block magic item use when they're bound to a chakra, regular melds allow you to wear magical items over them like anyone else would.

I think it's simpler to just say they're buff effects with a somewhat solid form rather then treat them as true equipment.

 

[RigaMortus2]

They mimic real items in some ways, but they still arent technically magic items. They're magical effects with a bit of solidity behind them. It would depend on whether you consider this as 'gear' or not. I wouldnt, as it only 'acts like' equipment, it doesnt actually turn into real equipment. I'd also have you consider that meld effects only block magic item use when they're bound to a chakra, regular melds allow you to wear magical items over them like anyone else would.

I think it's simpler to just say they're buff effects with a somewhat solid form rather then treat them as true equipment.

Well, it is more than a bit of solidity. In the first sentance it states it takes on a solid physical form. Not sure how else you can read that. Further more it goes on to say they act as a normal object that might be worn except for 3 difference... 1) They can't be removed, 2) they can't be damage and 3) they have no weight. No where does it state that they can't (or aren't) worn. A normal object of whatever soulmeld type you make IS worn. If you shape a soulmeld cloak, you wear it like a cloak, because "not wearing it like a cloak" is not one of the 3 exceptions. Also, why would they specify they can't be removed if they aren't worn?

Take a look at some of the pictures in the MoI book. Most of the pictures with soulmelds show them being worn in some fashion.

 

[Wrathamon]

Well, it is more than a bit of solidity. In the first sentance it states it takes on a solid physical form. Not sure how else you can read that. Further more it goes on to say they act as a normal object that might be worn except for 3 difference... 1) They can't be removed, 2) they can't be damage and 3) they have no weight. No where does it state that they can't (or aren't) worn. A normal object of whatever soulmeld type you make IS worn. If you shape a soulmeld cloak, you wear it like a cloak, because "not wearing it like a cloak" is not one of the 3 exceptions. Also, why would they specify they can't be removed if they aren't worn?

Take a look at some of the pictures in the MoI book. Most of the pictures with soulmelds show them being worn in some fashion.

But, would the "They cant be removed" also make the "meld into your form" conflict?

It isnt a direct conflict and is on shaky ground since meld into your form doesnt say it is removed...

 

[RigaMortus2]

But, would the "They cant be removed" also make the "meld into your form" conflict?

It isnt a direct conflict and is on shaky ground since meld into your form doesnt say it is removed...

I had thought about that, and I don't think they conflict. From my interpretation, they haven't been "removed", they just melded and are non functioning.

 

[D.Shaffer]

Well, it is more than a bit of solidity. In the first sentance it states it takes on a solid physical form. Not sure how else you can read that. Further more it goes on to say they act as a normal object that might be worn except for 3 difference... 1) They can't be removed, 2) they can't be damage and 3) they have no weight. No where does it state that they can't (or aren't) worn. A normal object of whatever soulmeld type you make IS worn. If you shape a soulmeld cloak, you wear it like a cloak, because "not wearing it like a cloak" is not one of the 3 exceptions. Also, why would they specify they can't be removed if they aren't worn?

Take a look at some of the pictures in the MoI book. Most of the pictures with soulmelds show them being worn in some fashion.

Solid physical form is not the same as being actual equipment (as silly as that may seem). Remember, unless you bind a meld to a chakra, you can wear items over it and it doesnt effect them no matter what the physical form of the meld. If you have a meld that's shaped like a helmet and it's not bound to the crown chakra, you can put a magical helmet on your head and it still fits perfectly. Also, even if you look like you're wearing it, and it acts like you're wearing it, it's still not an object of actual equipment. You cant sunder a meld like you can equipment. It's a magical effect with a fluff description of being of solid form. You're reading to much into that. They specify it cant be removed to keep people from trying to remove them and use them as gear themselves, IMO.

Since when was art considered sufficient evidence of anything involving a rule question?

 

[NilesB]

Soulmelds are not equipment, they are class abilities. A Druid/Totemist or Druid/Incarnate has weaker spells and wildshapes than a single classed Druid of equivalent level. They deserve to be able to use the abilities they gave up druid advancement for.

Would you deny a Druid/Sorcerer communication with their familiar when they share their familiars shape? Would you disallow a Druid/Barbarian from raging in bear or wolverine form?