Incorporeal monsters

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

What's the lowest level characters could take on an incorporeal foe and have even a half-way decent chance at survival? And how would you do it?

 

[Huw]

1st level, provided that the incorporeal creature is undead. As well as magic weapon, magic missile, etc., there is turn undead and holy water.

Just give enough warning ("it's rumoured to be haunted") and an avenue of escape ("it can't leave the house") and you'll have a fair and challenging encounter.

 

[MarkB]

About the lowest level they'll be reasonably able to handle such an encounter if it occurs without warning is probably 5th-6th, once most of the warrior-types have acquired magic weapons, and the spellcasters are able to dedicate multiple slots to magic missile.

 

[The Forsaken One]

Don't forget that it depends heavily on how intelligent you play them. Aka having them just attack from walls and floors and never exposing themselves except perhaps with a readied actions (which you wont even get when they attack from the floor since they never have to leave their space to touch you since you are in contact with their square, aka the floor).

 

[Trickstergod]

Don't forget that it depends heavily on how intelligent you play them. Aka having them just attack from walls and floors and never exposing themselves except perhaps with a readied actions (which you wont even get when they attack from the floor since they never have to leave their space to touch you since you are in contact with their square, aka the floor).

Unless the creature can see through that floor, readied actions will still apply, as the undead won't have the unerring ability to slide an incorporeal hand up through an all too corporeal foot - meaning either at least parts of a limb become visible while seeking out a foot, or a face will while taking a peek topside. At which point, unerring magic missiles will be able to hit that scant bit of limb or face with pinpoint accuracy.

And even if the creature can see through the floor, unerringly being able to slide a hand up through someones foot requires the target to stand perfectly still - meaning the creature needs to react swifter than instinct, as the target will move in the same way you would when touching a burning stove, giving another brief window of opportunity to nail the floor-bound attacker.

 

[TheNovaLord]

my party of 3rd level 'mostly divine knightly types' killed a wraith last session


Use variant rules for turning from complete divine, bless weapon spell from the glory domain, couple of charcaters had +1 weapons, and i allowed 'smite evil' to hit the wraith with a nonmagic weapon (albeit with the 50% miss chance). 1 paladin got hit once.

They had both detect evila nd undead before hand so knew what they were expecting. They even missed 80% in total due to bad rolls on the 50% miss chance.

JohnD

 

[ThirdWizard]

Unless the creature can see through that floor, readied actions will still apply, as the undead won't have the unerring ability to slide an incorporeal hand up through an all too corporeal foot - meaning either at least parts of a limb become visible while seeking out a foot, or a face will while taking a peek topside. At which point, unerring magic missiles will be able to hit that scant bit of limb or face with pinpoint accuracy.

And even if the creature can see through the floor, unerringly being able to slide a hand up through someones foot requires the target to stand perfectly still - meaning the creature needs to react swifter than instinct, as the target will move in the same way you would when touching a burning stove, giving another brief window of opportunity to nail the floor-bound attacker.

There are rules for this.

If the creature is in a wall or floor, then the PC being attacked has total concealment, meaning the incorporeal creature has a 50% miss chance on every attack.

The incorporeal creature is in the floor, so it has total cover for all the PCs attacks. Even a magic missile won't be able to attack them, since it has total cover.

 

[Trickstergod]

There are rules for this.
The incorporeal creature is in the floor, so it has total cover for all the PCs attacks. Even a magic missile won't be able to attack them, since it has total cover.

Except for when it's attacking. If it's attacking, it no longer has total cover, as some part of it has to come up through the floor to inflict the attack - be it fingers, an arm or whatever. Thus meaning a readied action can nail it, though it may require a spot check to see it in time.

But an incorporeal creature can't simply attack from the floor with impunity, short of attacking something that has absolutely no capacity to move from where it's standing, and only then if the creature can see through the floor.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Except for when it's attacking. If it's attacking, it no longer has total cover, as some part of it has to come up through the floor to inflict the attack - be it fingers, an arm or whatever. Thus meaning a readied action can nail it, though it may require a spot check to see it in time.

But an incorporeal creature can't simply attack from the floor with impunity, short of attacking something that has absolutely no capacity to move from where it's standing, and only then if the creature can see through the floor.

You can't attack an arm that pops up through the wall. To use an analogy, say you're fighting a creature with 10 foot natural reach. You can't stand 10 feet away and ready to attack their hand when it comes near you. The same idea applies. If you can't attack into their Space, then you can't attack the creature.

Here are the rules on incorporeal enemies hanging in walls and floors:

Incorporeal creatures hiding inside solid objects get a +2 circumstance bonus on Listen checks, because solid objects carry sound well. Pinpointing an opponent from inside a solid object uses the same rules as pinpointing invisible opponents (see Invisibility, below).

So, they pinpoint you using Listen. Then, once they move to an adjacent space, they can use the wall/floor as total cover from your own attacks (because you aren't incorporeal) while you only get total concealment from theirs (becuase they are incorporeal). That means they get a 50% miss chance to attack you, and you can't make an attack against them.

 

[MarkB]

You can't attack an arm that pops up through the wall. To use an analogy, say you're fighting a creature with 10 foot natural reach. You can't stand 10 feet away and ready to attack their hand when it comes near you. The same idea applies. If you can't attack into their Space, then you can't attack the creature.

Actually, the FAQ suggests the possibility of readying just such an attack against a creature with natural reach that reaches into your square to grapple or disarm you.