Increasing Crit Multiplier

[Corgano]

Has anybody seen a magic weapon ability that increases the critical damage multipler from x2 to x3 or higher? In my group there is a Deepwood Sniper (Masters of the Wild). As his special ability he has an increased damage multiplier. My Paladin in the group has asked if there is anyway to magically do the same to his sword. I am unsure what magical plus this ability would have, be it normal or epic.

Any insights would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Corgano
corgano@auracom.com

 

[Piratecat]

I'll slide this over to the Rules forum!

 

[Rackhir]

Well this should probably be in House rules rather than general.

Of course Piratecat the omnicient moved this over as I was typing my reply

I would personally be leery of letting an ability like that to be put on weapons (especially if you let it be applied multiple times), but it shouldn't be horribly expensive, probably +2 considering the price of Burst weapons which are generally more effective than an increased crit multiplier (considering that they add a d6 even on non crits). In fact that is probably what I would steer him towards.

A lot of this is going to come down to what kind of weapon he is using as well. If it's a high crit range weapon (like a falchon,
which with keen and imp crit gets down to 12-20? iirc) I would be much more leery of it. One of the reasons why high crit range weapons have low crit mulipliers is to balance them out. A weapon with a nearly 50% crit range and a 3-4x multiplier is NOT something you want to be dealing with at less than epic levels.

If he really has his heart set on it you might want to consider offering him a "paladin" verion of the Weapon Master from S&F. They get an enhanced crit multiplier (iirc) at I think around 5-7th lvl and should be relatively easily "paladinized".

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

The difficulty with increasing crit multipliers is that such abilities would have more dramatic effects on high crit range weapons than high crit multiplier weapons--unlike crit range expanding abilities which (with the exception of the weapon master) effect both equally.

Consider the following:
Heavy Pick 20/x4 is equivalent to three extra hits on a crit
Improved Crit 19-20/x4--now it grants six extra hits across its crit range.
Improved crit & keen 18-20/x4--now it grants 9 extra hits across its crit range.

Falchion 18-20/x2 is equivalent to three extra hits across its crit range
Improved Crit 15-20/x2 is equivalent to six extra hits across its crit range
Improved crit & keen 12-20/x2 is equivalent to nine extra hits across its crit range.

So, the math works out the same for 18-20 and 20/x4 weapons just as it does for 19-20 and 20/x3 weapons.

However, if you allow an ability that increases crit multipliers (lets call it devastating), this works combines much better with keen and improved critical.

Devastating Heavy Pick 20/x7 (equivalent to six extra hits)
Improved Crit Devastating heavy pick 19-20/x7 (equivalent to 12 extra hits
Improved Crit & keen devastating heavy pick 18-20/x7 (equivalent to 18 extra hits)

Devastating Falchion 18-20/x3 Equivalent to six extra hits
Improved Crit Devastating Falchion 15-20/x3 equivalent to 12 extra hits
Improved crit and keen devastating falchion 12-20/x3 equivalent to 18 extra hits).

It's also worth noting that the ability would have to work by multiplying crit multipliers rather than increasing them arithmetically otherwise high crit range weapons would benefit more than high crit multiple weapons (which is probably not the intent of the designers since all current effect benefit both equally). Note that in the previous example, a x4 weapon had to be increased to x7 in order to be equal to an 18-20/x2 weapon becoming x3. (The formula for this is 2m-1=new crit multiple where m is the current crit multiplier. This keeps high multiple and high range weapons even).

It's worth noting that there are already one ability which effectively increases the crit multiple to infinite (although it's not phrased that way)--vorpal.

 

[DerianCypher]

I'm pretty sure there is an enchantment called reaver in one of the splatbooks that increases the multiplier of a weapon. I believe it is a +1 or +2 enchantment.

 

[twjensen]

not so fast!

Before any hapless DM gives out a x7 weapon. . .

Changing a 20x4 to a 20x7 is NOT the same as changing an 18-20x2 to 18-20x3!!

Not even!!! All serious combatants should carry around a high multiplier weapon because of auto-crit on coup-de-grace! With a x7 on every coup-de-grace, all the sudden NO creature can make the save!

 

[Emongnome]

I've thought about this very thing (a +1 to the critical modifier) as possibly a feat. I've done a minor analysis of the effects of multiplier and threat range. Basically, the way I did my calculations are as follows: A 20/x2 has a 5% (0.05) chance of doing damage x2, and 95% (0.95) change of doing damage x1. Correct my math if you see any mistakes:

1) 20/x2 weapon: 2x0.05+0.95=1.05 average damage multiplier
2) 20/x3 weapon: 3x0.05+0.95=1.10 average damage multiplier
3) 20/x4 weapon: 4x0.05+0.95=1.15 average damage multiplier
4) 19-20/x2 weapon: 2x0.10+0.90=1.10 average damage multiplier
5) 18-20/x2 weapon: 2x0.15+0.85=1.15 average damage multiplier

Let's increase threat range:
1) 19-20/x2 weapon: 2x0.10+0.90=1.10 average damage multiplier
2) 19-20/x3 weapon: 3x0.10+0.90=1.20 average damage multiplier
3) 19-20/x4 weapon: 4x0.1+0.90=1.30 average damage multiplier
4) 17-20/x2 weapon: 2x0.20+0.80=1.20 average damage multiplier
5) 15-20/x2 weapon: 2x0.30+0.70=1.30 average damage multiplier

Now let's increase the multiplier:
1) 20/x3 weapon: 3x0.05+0.95=1.10 average damage multiplier
2) 20/x4 weapon: 4x0.05+0.95=1.15 average damage multiplier
3) 20/x5 weapon: 5x0.05+0.95=1.20 average damage multiplier
4) 19-20/x3 weapon: 3x0.10+0.90=1.20 average damage multiplier
5) 18-20/x3 weapon: 3x0.15+0.85=1.30 average damage multiplier

Now let's increase both:
1) 19-20/x3 weapon: 3x0.10+0.90=1.20 average damage multiplier
2) 19-20/x4 weapon: 4x0.10+0.90=1.30 average damage multiplier
3) 19-20/x5 weapon: 5x0.1+0.90=1.40 average damage multiplier
4) 17-20/x3 weapon: 3x0.20+0.80=1.40 average damage multiplier
5) 15-20/x3 weapon: 3x0.30+0.70=1.60 average damage multiplier

If Improved Multiplier was a feat and you had the choice of taking either that feat or Improved Critical, the latter would mathematically be superior (in some cases), though obviously taking both could be quite fearsome. I didn't take into account keen weapons, though. I welcome comments on my math and what effect you think having that new feat would mean. Ok, this could've been put into house rules, and I may copy it and paste it there, but it seemed appropriate to this thread.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Re: not so fast!

Indeed, x7 is not nearly the same as changing an 18-20/x2 to 18-20/x3. A x7 crit is much less useful. After all, a x3 crit is often an instakill and a x4 crit is almost always an instakill. So in that sense, x7 isn't really any better than x4. On the other hand, x3 is significantly better than x2.

As a DM, I'd much much much rather give out a x7 crit weapon than an 18-20/x3 weapon. If players really want deadly coup de graces, they can just carry a heavy pick around with them. With full two handed power attack and an auto-crit, very few creatures even survive the damage, let alone the save. Going from x4 to x7 is overkill in that case as well.

Before any hapless DM gives out a x7 weapon. . .

Changing a 20x4 to a 20x7 is NOT the same as changing an 18-20x2 to 18-20x3!!

Not even!!! All serious combatants should carry around a high multiplier weapon because of auto-crit on coup-de-grace! With a x7 on every coup-de-grace, all the sudden NO creature can make the save!

 

[DerianCypher]

Do you guys actually coup de grace that often? The only way to get one off is have the creature held or unconscious... I don't know about you but creatures seldom become held or stay held long enough to get a coup de grace off in the campaigns I've played in