Indiana Jones 4 and KotS similarities? *Spoilers*
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Wik
First Post
When that movie started, and I saw aliens, I groaned. then there was some cool stuff in the jungle, and a great scene involving fire ants... and then we were back to aliens.
Aliens.
Indiana Jones.
I've already begun writing an open letter to Steven Spielberg and George Lucas in my head.
Aliens.
Indiana Jones.
I've already begun writing an open letter to Steven Spielberg and George Lucas in my head.
it makes sense
I saw it just now...
Lucas and spielberg mentiond in vanity fair in jan that they expected to lose half the fanbase with Lucas' decision for the direction here of the story.
THe thing is..based on his original concept for the character... IT MAKES SENSE.
Indy was based on the adventure pulp stories that were popular/gaining popularity in the 20s/30s. What do you know? that is when the first 3 films were based.
The thing is...Lucas stated in his thoughts, due to how he based him on those old adventure stories, since the time period advanced to around the 60s, the concept has to as well. THe pulp stories that started to gain popularity at that time, not all, but some, were sci-fi based (or at least, had more quasi science in them)....Hence, Lucas said to be true to his original concept--based on those pulp stories/comics, he had to advance the story.
I loved it. As did my wife. the 3 friends with us..2 liked it..1 was disappointed.
Overall..it rocked.
RUMOUR - Lucas/Speilberg said, they aren't against doing a 5th film, where Ford plays the role of COnnery...the old father, while his son truly takes over...
I can't wait and hope they do
Sanjay
I saw it just now...
Lucas and spielberg mentiond in vanity fair in jan that they expected to lose half the fanbase with Lucas' decision for the direction here of the story.
THe thing is..based on his original concept for the character... IT MAKES SENSE.
Indy was based on the adventure pulp stories that were popular/gaining popularity in the 20s/30s. What do you know? that is when the first 3 films were based.
The thing is...Lucas stated in his thoughts, due to how he based him on those old adventure stories, since the time period advanced to around the 60s, the concept has to as well. THe pulp stories that started to gain popularity at that time, not all, but some, were sci-fi based (or at least, had more quasi science in them)....Hence, Lucas said to be true to his original concept--based on those pulp stories/comics, he had to advance the story.
I loved it. As did my wife. the 3 friends with us..2 liked it..1 was disappointed.
Overall..it rocked.
RUMOUR - Lucas/Speilberg said, they aren't against doing a 5th film, where Ford plays the role of COnnery...the old father, while his son truly takes over...
I can't wait and hope they do
Sanjay
Wik
First Post
Re: The Movie.
Now, I'm a huge indy fan. I'm part of Lucas' fanbase, there, that he decided to alienate (by the way, why would someone go forward with something like this knowing he'd lose half the fanbase? Isn't that sort of backwards thinking?).
You can set up a pulpish story, set in the 1950s, no problem. I had no problem with the fact that Indy was in the OSS. I actually thought that was kind of cool. Indy surviving a nuclear attack (for no real apparent reason)? Not so cool. References to interdimensional aliens in the Roswell scene? I can dig it. But a movie based around interdimensional archaeologist aliens? Not as cool.
It just doesn't fit the character's universe. Psychic Russians are not Indiana Jones. Religious Arcs with strange powers, evil cultists, and the fountain of youth ARE. Simply saying "well, the genre changed, so the character has to as well" just doesn't sit with me.
Personally, I think the original idea for Indy 4 (Atlantis!) would've gone much better.
That being said, Indy 5 would be okay. But I'm quite disappointed with this one.
***
Back on topic: I don't know how 4e the movie really was, or how it had anything but superficial ties to KotS. Indy starts with a prisoner trying to escape from the clutches of the russians. KotS has the PCs trying to reach a location for... what? Whatever goal the GM gives them. The Keep and the lost city Indy are searching for are sort of related, in that both are interdimensional. But that's about it.
Though, to be honest, several times in the movie I found myself thinking "whoever designed these traps and doors HAD to play D&D". Seriously, the "dungeoneering" part of the movie was great. I really loved the circular weight on the floor, that would appear as a dead end until someone got near the end, and the floor would tilt to reveal an opening. Sheer genius, that.
Now, I'm a huge indy fan. I'm part of Lucas' fanbase, there, that he decided to alienate (by the way, why would someone go forward with something like this knowing he'd lose half the fanbase? Isn't that sort of backwards thinking?).
You can set up a pulpish story, set in the 1950s, no problem. I had no problem with the fact that Indy was in the OSS. I actually thought that was kind of cool. Indy surviving a nuclear attack (for no real apparent reason)? Not so cool. References to interdimensional aliens in the Roswell scene? I can dig it. But a movie based around interdimensional archaeologist aliens? Not as cool.
It just doesn't fit the character's universe. Psychic Russians are not Indiana Jones. Religious Arcs with strange powers, evil cultists, and the fountain of youth ARE. Simply saying "well, the genre changed, so the character has to as well" just doesn't sit with me.
Personally, I think the original idea for Indy 4 (Atlantis!) would've gone much better.
That being said, Indy 5 would be okay. But I'm quite disappointed with this one.
***
Back on topic: I don't know how 4e the movie really was, or how it had anything but superficial ties to KotS. Indy starts with a prisoner trying to escape from the clutches of the russians. KotS has the PCs trying to reach a location for... what? Whatever goal the GM gives them. The Keep and the lost city Indy are searching for are sort of related, in that both are interdimensional. But that's about it.
Though, to be honest, several times in the movie I found myself thinking "whoever designed these traps and doors HAD to play D&D". Seriously, the "dungeoneering" part of the movie was great. I really loved the circular weight on the floor, that would appear as a dead end until someone got near the end, and the floor would tilt to reveal an opening. Sheer genius, that.
That One Guy
First Post
Just got in from a late night showing with friends. Entertained, but mixed feelings.
Indy's always been a Heroic/Paragon type of hero and in this it felt like things were a bit too epic? Also, the editing was... offensive to my tastes? It felt like scenes were longer (but cut down) or moments should have been had, but they were skipped for time constraints. Also, characters jump around in positioning a lot. But, it was still enjoyable.
On topic, starting the fight in the diner was classic D&D. The traps as mentioned have always felt D&D-tastic to me. Yeah, I liked how the psychic Russian fencer was totally an elite, and the big guy was a brute. Oh yeah, SWARMS.
I hope a DVD version comes out w/ a lot of extended scenes.
Indy's always been a Heroic/Paragon type of hero and in this it felt like things were a bit too epic? Also, the editing was... offensive to my tastes? It felt like scenes were longer (but cut down) or moments should have been had, but they were skipped for time constraints. Also, characters jump around in positioning a lot. But, it was still enjoyable.
On topic, starting the fight in the diner was classic D&D. The traps as mentioned have always felt D&D-tastic to me. Yeah, I liked how the psychic Russian fencer was totally an elite, and the big guy was a brute. Oh yeah, SWARMS.
I hope a DVD version comes out w/ a lot of extended scenes.
MortalPlague
Adventurer
Wik said:
I completely agree. I was a little disappointed with the film for those reasons... and the fact that Indy survives being thrown a mile or two in a refrigerator, and that the boat survives two waterfalls (?!?!) before finally breaking on the third. Boats don't work that way! A little bit of comic physics is fine, but I thought Indy 4 was way overboard in that department.
Cirex
First Post
Some of my friends (and my brother) didn't like the idea of aliens. So I was like "Aren't we all pure atheists?" "Yes" "So how in the world we can accept Arks, evil sorcerers and the Grail but not aliens, which are far more believable for us" "Oh, true".
Anyways, the movie was the weakest of all four, and my favoriute Indy story is still Fate of Atlantis (even if it's just half-official). Nur-Ab-Sal!
*"Mac" had a skill challenge against Indy during the movie, using bluff and diplomacy.
*Irina was a psionic. She's missing her source power, that's why her powers didn't work.
*The new swarm did work nicely. Irina Spalko, with her superior HP, managed to escape, but Minions died hopelessly at the hands of the swarm.
*Many other skill challenges during the movie, with Indy showing his high modifier in athletics, any kind of knowledge, perception and even thievery.
Etc.
Anyways, the movie was the weakest of all four, and my favoriute Indy story is still Fate of Atlantis (even if it's just half-official). Nur-Ab-Sal!
*"Mac" had a skill challenge against Indy during the movie, using bluff and diplomacy.
*Irina was a psionic. She's missing her source power, that's why her powers didn't work.
*The new swarm did work nicely. Irina Spalko, with her superior HP, managed to escape, but Minions died hopelessly at the hands of the swarm.
*Many other skill challenges during the movie, with Indy showing his high modifier in athletics, any kind of knowledge, perception and even thievery.
Etc.
AZRogue
Explorer
I enjoyed the movie but to be honest I enjoyed it mostly because it was another Indiana Jones film. I was just happy to see the big guy on screen with his hat and whip again.
If I had my way, though, the alien theme wouldn't have been included WITHOUT at least Indiana going after the great city of Atlantis, too. I was really hoping for something big like that. What's with the El Dorado lately? It never appealed to me as a legend. Oh, well. It was great to see him on screen again.
If I had my way, though, the alien theme wouldn't have been included WITHOUT at least Indiana going after the great city of Atlantis, too. I was really hoping for something big like that. What's with the El Dorado lately? It never appealed to me as a legend. Oh, well. It was great to see him on screen again.
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