Guilt Puppy
First Post
Okay, here's the general situation: Me and my group have been playing multiple times per week lately (no more; I am at this point immune to their coercion, as I've figured out the following...). This leaves me little time to plan, forcing me to improvise a lot. Now, I know some DMs can spin great adventures totally off the cuff, but I am not one of them. My game runs fairly well when I have time to plan, and fairly poorly when I don't.
The problem is, this lack of planning has steered things off course from the major adventure I was trying to get the PCs to discover (details below)... When I only have a few ideas for encounters, or whatever, a lot of sessions end up being strings of fairly random stuff with no evidence of backstory. I do, at least, have the presence of mind to leave a few hooks along the way for future use, but this has actually come back and bit me, as they usually don't end up leading toward the Epic Part of the Adventure I'm trying to get my PCs to.
Another thing that's come from this: My players have come to totally ignore any clues, leads, whatever, as for a series of sessions things were much more straightforward than that. It seems like now, the only way they know to occupy their time is to go ask an NPC what to do (which he flatly refused to do last session, because I'm bored with that, and they should be.) Moreover, they've always been fairly lazy as far as gathering information is concerned: If an NPC doesn't reveal to them every detail of the adventure (including things he or she just plain wouldn't know about), they decide that they are useless, and complain at me. In their minds, the world is populated with hundreds of totally useless NPCs, which means that it's impossible to use NPCs to lay down adventure hooks for them (short of "please do this task I will pay you XXX gold").
An example of this: At a site they were recently sent to (again, because they don't go anywhere they're not sent), they happened to encounter a character who was hunting down the BBEG they had been after, for a while (and then forgotten about when they couldn't find an NPC who knew his precise location)... The BBEG, of course, is integral to the adventure I'd really like to lead them into... Naturally, this character doesn't introduce himself saying "Hello! I am hunting BBEG and want you to join me!"... Rather, he explains that he's "sort of a paladin", who hunts undead, and came to this place (which is full of undead) as a sidetrek from pursuing "much bigger prey." Now, BBEG is a lich, and the players have already come to this conclusion. Rather than making the connection, though, they give him a "that's nice, have fun" and go back to get another adventure from the same guy they always do.
Now, I thought this was heavy-handed plot manipulation when I planned it, the sort of thing I try to avoid... However, it went totally under their radar, so I had no choice but to put away that idea, and keep going.
In short, the campaign's gotten really kick-in-the-door, which isn't fun for me as a DM, and doesn't seem as fun for them as players (they were enjoying the game a lot more early on, before things were steered awry, and they were actually doing good detective-work.) I'd like to steer it back toward the story-puzzle style of play, but don't know how to do that at this point (without resorting to metagame solutions... I hate telling my players how they're supposed to play). In short, I want to find a way to get them to adapt back to my style of play, as well as adapting my style of play to suit them a little better (of course, their style of play originally worked well with mine -- I guess my problem is getting them to adapt from the low-backstory, straightforward tasks I've been giving them lately.) Not too sure exactly how to do that.
Anyway, let me get to the specifics of the storyline, to see if you have any specific ideas about it:
BBEG is a lich, who likes being immortal but would sure like to take it a step further and become a god. Of course, this isn't an easy task: Only two people have ever achieved divine power by their own hand in all recorded history: Boccob, and Vecna. Boccob managed to do this through a whole lot of arcane study (and only got away with it because he was so very True Neutral that none of the existing gods saw any reason to stop him.) Vecna, on the other hand, had to do it in a lot more secrecy...
Now, BBEG has determined in his research that Vecna managed to pull this off by not only creating some sort of artifact which could harness divine power, but existed in the shadows beyond the sight of gods. It stands to reason, then, that this thing should still exist, or at very least clues to its construction: BBEG seeks only to find out where.
In actuality, this "thing" is a tower that sits as a junction between worlds, existing outside the domain of the exisiting pantheons, and drawing (inefficiently: Vecna was too impatient to learn how to achieve divinity in a more elegant fashion) from the surrounding lands, leaving the continent he once ruled a barren wasteland full of strange horrors et cetera (fairly cliche, sure, but should be fun to adventure through once they get there.)
Dwelling within the tower is a guardian, responsible for keeping it safe from those who would seek its power (in case the big crazy demonic things for hundreds of miles surrounding are insufficient.) He has become aware of BBEG's plans, and has been trying (discretely, and obtusely) to point the PCs in the direction of BBEG, so that they will slay him good.
At the moment, BBEG is on a boat to the old continent, and will arrive Coincidentally When the PCs are of Appropriate Level. At that point, they'll receive another parcel from the tower guardian, which should give them enough information to utilize an old monument to travel to the continent and catch up with BBEG, sort of. (From then on it will be them trying to track him across the wastelands, and survive, and figure out what the hell is going on.)
Of course, the PCs at this point know only that BBEG is evil, and has been doing research. I'd like them to have some idea what he is up to, but they ignore the clues: For instance, at one point he left behind a book on the nature of divinity and its relation to arcane magic, and a history of the old continent, which they later found. They were in infernal, so they took it to someone to see what they were. His response, of course, was "a book on arcana, and a book on history," and the players said "okay" and took off. They have Comprehend Languages at their disposal, and have considered using it, but never actually tried. Repeat this scenario with every clue I try to give them...
At any rate, last session they decided (when it became clear that the NPC they always wanted adventures from didn't have anything for them) to take out this clan of assassins that had been hired to kill them (for only vaguely related reasons... they have still done a lot, and had plenty of chances to make enemies.) This is the sort of thing I like to get from them (I don't like to DM like I'm unveiling a story; rather, I like to get as much story from them as they do from me. Makes it fun), but then their approach was to find a seedy tavern in the town they'd heard the assassins might be in and "sit around." Luckily, I did have another strike on them planned (the assassins are good at tracking people down, especially when they decide it's time to whip out the Retriever), so it wasn't totally fruitless... But then, their response was to kill them all and leave town.
So what I'm wondering: (A) Is there a scenario which I can set up which allows for players to do only light detective work and still manage to find this super-secret elite assassin's guild, and (B) after that, how do I get them "back on track" and caring about BBEG again?
Now, I'm considering having someone deliver some misinformation to them, and send them to some very dangerous place to die (at least, so the assassin who sends them there would hope). I could have this place related to BBEG's plans somehow (the area they're in is scattered with relics from an old civilization that kept ties with the now-dead continent, and BBEG is most naturally attracted to these places and the secrets they might hold), but I'd like not to have every single plot-thread eventually point back to the same place. Even if I am trying to guide my players, I don't want to make them feel manipulated: Again, it's the difference between story-telling and story-building.
Anyway, any suggestions (be they general techniques, or very specific subplots) are much appreciated. I've been racking my brain and coming up with less and less lately (mainly been demotivated by seeing all the planning I've been getting back to doing go totally ignored.)
(Oh, and I know it might sound otherwise, because I do get exasperated, but: I'm not trying to pin this all on my players. It's as much my fault as theirs, which is why I'm the one asking for help in solving the problem. Just wanted to clarify.)
The problem is, this lack of planning has steered things off course from the major adventure I was trying to get the PCs to discover (details below)... When I only have a few ideas for encounters, or whatever, a lot of sessions end up being strings of fairly random stuff with no evidence of backstory. I do, at least, have the presence of mind to leave a few hooks along the way for future use, but this has actually come back and bit me, as they usually don't end up leading toward the Epic Part of the Adventure I'm trying to get my PCs to.
Another thing that's come from this: My players have come to totally ignore any clues, leads, whatever, as for a series of sessions things were much more straightforward than that. It seems like now, the only way they know to occupy their time is to go ask an NPC what to do (which he flatly refused to do last session, because I'm bored with that, and they should be.) Moreover, they've always been fairly lazy as far as gathering information is concerned: If an NPC doesn't reveal to them every detail of the adventure (including things he or she just plain wouldn't know about), they decide that they are useless, and complain at me. In their minds, the world is populated with hundreds of totally useless NPCs, which means that it's impossible to use NPCs to lay down adventure hooks for them (short of "please do this task I will pay you XXX gold").
An example of this: At a site they were recently sent to (again, because they don't go anywhere they're not sent), they happened to encounter a character who was hunting down the BBEG they had been after, for a while (and then forgotten about when they couldn't find an NPC who knew his precise location)... The BBEG, of course, is integral to the adventure I'd really like to lead them into... Naturally, this character doesn't introduce himself saying "Hello! I am hunting BBEG and want you to join me!"... Rather, he explains that he's "sort of a paladin", who hunts undead, and came to this place (which is full of undead) as a sidetrek from pursuing "much bigger prey." Now, BBEG is a lich, and the players have already come to this conclusion. Rather than making the connection, though, they give him a "that's nice, have fun" and go back to get another adventure from the same guy they always do.
Now, I thought this was heavy-handed plot manipulation when I planned it, the sort of thing I try to avoid... However, it went totally under their radar, so I had no choice but to put away that idea, and keep going.
In short, the campaign's gotten really kick-in-the-door, which isn't fun for me as a DM, and doesn't seem as fun for them as players (they were enjoying the game a lot more early on, before things were steered awry, and they were actually doing good detective-work.) I'd like to steer it back toward the story-puzzle style of play, but don't know how to do that at this point (without resorting to metagame solutions... I hate telling my players how they're supposed to play). In short, I want to find a way to get them to adapt back to my style of play, as well as adapting my style of play to suit them a little better (of course, their style of play originally worked well with mine -- I guess my problem is getting them to adapt from the low-backstory, straightforward tasks I've been giving them lately.) Not too sure exactly how to do that.
Anyway, let me get to the specifics of the storyline, to see if you have any specific ideas about it:
BBEG is a lich, who likes being immortal but would sure like to take it a step further and become a god. Of course, this isn't an easy task: Only two people have ever achieved divine power by their own hand in all recorded history: Boccob, and Vecna. Boccob managed to do this through a whole lot of arcane study (and only got away with it because he was so very True Neutral that none of the existing gods saw any reason to stop him.) Vecna, on the other hand, had to do it in a lot more secrecy...
Now, BBEG has determined in his research that Vecna managed to pull this off by not only creating some sort of artifact which could harness divine power, but existed in the shadows beyond the sight of gods. It stands to reason, then, that this thing should still exist, or at very least clues to its construction: BBEG seeks only to find out where.
In actuality, this "thing" is a tower that sits as a junction between worlds, existing outside the domain of the exisiting pantheons, and drawing (inefficiently: Vecna was too impatient to learn how to achieve divinity in a more elegant fashion) from the surrounding lands, leaving the continent he once ruled a barren wasteland full of strange horrors et cetera (fairly cliche, sure, but should be fun to adventure through once they get there.)
Dwelling within the tower is a guardian, responsible for keeping it safe from those who would seek its power (in case the big crazy demonic things for hundreds of miles surrounding are insufficient.) He has become aware of BBEG's plans, and has been trying (discretely, and obtusely) to point the PCs in the direction of BBEG, so that they will slay him good.
At the moment, BBEG is on a boat to the old continent, and will arrive Coincidentally When the PCs are of Appropriate Level. At that point, they'll receive another parcel from the tower guardian, which should give them enough information to utilize an old monument to travel to the continent and catch up with BBEG, sort of. (From then on it will be them trying to track him across the wastelands, and survive, and figure out what the hell is going on.)
Of course, the PCs at this point know only that BBEG is evil, and has been doing research. I'd like them to have some idea what he is up to, but they ignore the clues: For instance, at one point he left behind a book on the nature of divinity and its relation to arcane magic, and a history of the old continent, which they later found. They were in infernal, so they took it to someone to see what they were. His response, of course, was "a book on arcana, and a book on history," and the players said "okay" and took off. They have Comprehend Languages at their disposal, and have considered using it, but never actually tried. Repeat this scenario with every clue I try to give them...
At any rate, last session they decided (when it became clear that the NPC they always wanted adventures from didn't have anything for them) to take out this clan of assassins that had been hired to kill them (for only vaguely related reasons... they have still done a lot, and had plenty of chances to make enemies.) This is the sort of thing I like to get from them (I don't like to DM like I'm unveiling a story; rather, I like to get as much story from them as they do from me. Makes it fun), but then their approach was to find a seedy tavern in the town they'd heard the assassins might be in and "sit around." Luckily, I did have another strike on them planned (the assassins are good at tracking people down, especially when they decide it's time to whip out the Retriever), so it wasn't totally fruitless... But then, their response was to kill them all and leave town.
So what I'm wondering: (A) Is there a scenario which I can set up which allows for players to do only light detective work and still manage to find this super-secret elite assassin's guild, and (B) after that, how do I get them "back on track" and caring about BBEG again?
Now, I'm considering having someone deliver some misinformation to them, and send them to some very dangerous place to die (at least, so the assassin who sends them there would hope). I could have this place related to BBEG's plans somehow (the area they're in is scattered with relics from an old civilization that kept ties with the now-dead continent, and BBEG is most naturally attracted to these places and the secrets they might hold), but I'd like not to have every single plot-thread eventually point back to the same place. Even if I am trying to guide my players, I don't want to make them feel manipulated: Again, it's the difference between story-telling and story-building.
Anyway, any suggestions (be they general techniques, or very specific subplots) are much appreciated. I've been racking my brain and coming up with less and less lately (mainly been demotivated by seeing all the planning I've been getting back to doing go totally ignored.)
(Oh, and I know it might sound otherwise, because I do get exasperated, but: I'm not trying to pin this all on my players. It's as much my fault as theirs, which is why I'm the one asking for help in solving the problem. Just wanted to clarify.)
Still let's try this. 
).
