I think you need to go back to the hay days of Pulpand ERB; John Carter of Mars, Tarzan and sooo many more, that were wrote in the same style and before Conan and you will see that D&D follows the style.
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Influence of Conan on D&D
- Thread starter Erekose
- Start date
Mark Hope
Hero
Zenobia, I think.
And yes, the original Conan stories are unfettered awesome. The energy just crackles off the page. A bit of a filter is a good idea, but the stories are no less brilliant because of it. Genuine must-reads.
I've always wondered why some people have to over-analyze books and movies, always looking for socially redeeming qualities or to rip it apart because it's not politically correct. Why can't people just enjoy the stuff for the pure escapism and fun? I've never worried about the racism or sexism in a Conan story, I just always enjoyed the high adventure!
MortalPlague
Adventurer
I picked up a couple volumes of the original Howard Conan stories; they were an excellent read, chock full of ideas and inspiration for D&D. I would love to run a game one day with a similar low-magic "sorcerers can't be trusted" feel...
NiTessine
Explorer
This isn't overanalysis, it's just plain analysis. Nobody's even trotted out Freud yet. As for why we do it, it is the logical result when you start to think about what you read. Analyzing the stories enhances our understanding of them.
Howard also had a strong female lead in "Shadow of the Vulture", with the original Red Sonya of Rogatino. Unlike her namesake in the Dark Horse comics, she wore clothes. She also shot people in the face, and was generally more capable than the male lead, the German knight Kalmbach. It's one of my favourite Howard stories in general.
Storn
Explorer
Conan's wife was Zenobia. I know, because I got to draw her twice for the Mongoose Conan rpg. Here is the younger version...
but back onto topic. I think Conan had an enormous influence on D&D. I remember getting Greyhawk, the little yellow pamphlet, in the mail, and the artwork was certainly influenced by the seminal Conan artists, Frank Frazetta, John Buscema, Barry Windsor Smith. Got to remember, this is 1976, this is some time ago. Conan the marvel comic was in full swing. Frazetta's covers were only about 10 years old.
Mechanically, I think the the idea of mixed classes was a direct result of Conan as a young man, thief career. You could see the struggle in those early days between D&D 's wargame roots and trying to satisfy the lure of the fiction. Not to mention the very idea of "leveling".. Conan's arc has a real D&D leveling structure to it, despite REH writing his stories completely out of order of the eventual chronological order.
And without Conan, we wouldn't have Elric who is the antithesis of Conan, Moorcock even admitted as much. Without Elric, I'm not sure we would have had Alignments, which were extremely influenced by Moorcock's Law and Chaos thematics.
And certainly Leiber was influenced by REH. And certainly Vance was influenced by REH. Even if both of those men tried to do fantasy that distanced itself from all the pastiches of Conan. Without Vance, we wouldn't have the D&D magic system.
Conan has been a huge influence on me.
but back onto topic. I think Conan had an enormous influence on D&D. I remember getting Greyhawk, the little yellow pamphlet, in the mail, and the artwork was certainly influenced by the seminal Conan artists, Frank Frazetta, John Buscema, Barry Windsor Smith. Got to remember, this is 1976, this is some time ago. Conan the marvel comic was in full swing. Frazetta's covers were only about 10 years old.
Mechanically, I think the the idea of mixed classes was a direct result of Conan as a young man, thief career. You could see the struggle in those early days between D&D 's wargame roots and trying to satisfy the lure of the fiction. Not to mention the very idea of "leveling".. Conan's arc has a real D&D leveling structure to it, despite REH writing his stories completely out of order of the eventual chronological order.
And without Conan, we wouldn't have Elric who is the antithesis of Conan, Moorcock even admitted as much. Without Elric, I'm not sure we would have had Alignments, which were extremely influenced by Moorcock's Law and Chaos thematics.
And certainly Leiber was influenced by REH. And certainly Vance was influenced by REH. Even if both of those men tried to do fantasy that distanced itself from all the pastiches of Conan. Without Vance, we wouldn't have the D&D magic system.
Conan has been a huge influence on me.
Agreed - When I designed my RPG world and system - I wanted more Conan to its feel. A better ability to be a barbaric warrior and thief (No classes in my system for example). The raw deadliness and energy (Quick, deadly fights). And a lot of setting feel (Monsters are rare but deadly and very, VERY not human).
My bit earlier about a filter comes off a bit harsher than I wanted. Though the filter of the 1920s and 30s, you can see Howard as quite forward thinking. He certainly had a disdain of civilization and a love of the "savage" as being more pure (A great theme btw). Plus he did a lot with strong female characters. I agree that the reality of the pulp business needing the helpless girls to rescue probably grated with him. Things I've read about him often point to a deep respect for his mother and the opinions of his significant other.
Smoss
My bit earlier about a filter comes off a bit harsher than I wanted. Though the filter of the 1920s and 30s, you can see Howard as quite forward thinking. He certainly had a disdain of civilization and a love of the "savage" as being more pure (A great theme btw). Plus he did a lot with strong female characters. I agree that the reality of the pulp business needing the helpless girls to rescue probably grated with him. Things I've read about him often point to a deep respect for his mother and the opinions of his significant other.
Smoss
Like AD&D magic users. That's why they have summon spells -- when you are 18th level but still only have 30 hit points, you better put a seriously monstrous meat shield between you and the very angry high level fighter.
Conan's wife was Zenobia. I know, because I got to draw her twice for the Mongoose Conan rpg. Here is the younger version...
Very nice.
Did you complain to those sexist pigs* at Mongoose about them statting her, who saves Conan's life, as a 1st level Noble?*Seriously, I see more sexism and less understanding of female psychology these days from the typical computer game publisher, or several RPG publishers, than from any 1930's pulp fantasy author I can think of, REH certainly included.
Well, if you're reading/watching a story where your group is on the receiving end of racism/sexism/etc, it can certainly irk. Being of Ulster Protestant background, I got a bit tired of us being the baddies in various BBC dramas of the early-mid '90s, and it must have really sucked being a white South African, or a Serb. It may be less of an issue if you're a member of an historically dominant group, eg Yankees don't seem to mind "Gone With the Wind", and few upper class Englishmen seem to care that they're always the villains in Hollywood movies.
But if you're already feeling vulnerable, being told by an author that your kind, or your in-story analogues, are all black-hearted demons, can be quite annoying, even distressing.Similar Threads
