Information on Druids

Joseph Campbell is largely discredited in the academic community, as have the Durkheim, Jung, Freud, Marx and all the other fellows who followed in the footsteps of G.W.F. Hegel.
To add to Apoptosis's reply - Durkheim and Marx are not "discredited", either. Obviously few modern historians accept Marx's theory of history holus bolus, but his theories of ideology, and of the way in which a capitalist economy transforms both social relations and the experienece of social relations, remain highly influential. Durkheim's account of the way in which moderntiy differs from pre-modernity, and in particular that social life in modernity has certain characteristics resulting from atrophy of the collective consciousness, also remains influential, even if no one believes every single word that Durkheim wrote.

And to state my credentials - I am an academic lawyer and social and political philosopher.
 

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To add to Apoptosis's reply - Durkheim and Marx are not "discredited", either. Obviously few modern historians accept Marx's theory of history holus bolus, but his theories of ideology, and of the way in which a capitalist economy transforms both social relations and the experienece of social relations, remain highly influential.

The whole idea that the hand mill creates feudalism and the steam mill creates capitalism is indeed largely discredited (except for lingering baby boomers in sociology departents.) The very idea that we are largely determined by collectively unconscious societal movements (materialistically or not) didn't have much truck when I was a history undergrad. Especially if you take it to the extremes of believing that certain societies thought in anthropomorphic ways or in abstract symbolic ways.

What you actually find if you look at history is that nuanced and sophisticated ideas can exist in all times and places. Sure we discover new things, even develop tools for reasoning such as the scientific method. However, we are just as much determined by our conscious mind as our unconcious. None of this should be surprising given that for all our vaulted technology, we still use tools with our manual dexterity just like our earliest ancestors.

Durkheim's account of the way in which moderntiy differs from pre-modernity, and in particular that social life in modernity has certain characteristics resulting from atrophy of the collective consciousness, also remains influential, even if no one believes every single word that Durkheim wrote.
Yeah, if the idea that we share some sort of species memory or shared societal mind is also definately discredited.

I'll grant the guy in the previous post that Freud's general approach for treating psychological problems through therapy is still influential. However, I think he'll also agree that habit is a far more likely determinent of human action than supposed "suppressed neurosis". In fact, you have to dig pretty deep to find anything of value in Freud's writings on the unconcious at all. When you get to Freud trying to be a historian, it gets particularly bad because all of these guys didn't see anything wrong with using made-up conjecture. Freud's theory on the origin of religion for example, posits that we have a race memory stretching back to when we were man-apes who killed the alpha male because he was hoarding all the sexual access to females. They then worshipped a "god" figure to alleviate their guilt.

For all of these turn of the century social philosophers/scientists when I say that they are largely discredited I don't mean that it is impossible to find a few pearls strewn among the pig :):):):). However, it is still a whole lot of pig :):):):), because their methodologies were bad and their research sloppy, even for their time.

I would leave everyone who followed in the footsteps of G.W.F Hegel to the historians to catalogue, and instead read people who have collected those pearls for us and actually use the methodologies which make them credible experts. I would read Joseph Campbell not as an authority on myth or the psychology of myth, but rather as an indicator of how seriously people in academic circles took Jungian psychology 60 years ago.
 
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Hmm? My point was that the term "pagan" is so broad as to be useless here.

In the simplest terms, "pagan" was used to describe the people in europe who weren't christian or roman (during the roman era). What it means now is not quite the same as what it meant then.

Once christianity took over europe, pagan basically meant the folks who were still practicing the "old ways". Any real witches (during the witch hunts) were pagans (folks practicing pre-christian beliefs). I think calling them pagan went out of fashion, since it was more efficient to call what they did "witchcraft", call them a "witch" and deal with them as set forth in the Maleous Malefecarum.
 

I am going to stay out of the academic debate (though I have my own opinion on how problematic "discredited" is as term to use for the social scientists mentioned), and simply say that my personal favorite source of info for druids is Gygax. ;)
 

I am going to stay out of the academic debate (though I have my own opinion on how problematic "discredited" is as term to use for the social scientists mentioned), and simply say that my personal favorite source of info for druids is Gygax. ;)

Good choice.

In the academic context 'discredited' means simply 'something which I have grossly oversimplified into a straw man that I disagree with.'
 

Pagan I think is just a catch-all phrase to mean non-Christian. The terms heathen and villain I think were more specifically meant to denote farmers and peasants who might be pagans. One further distinction that's important is that most pagans were Polytheistic. The notion of worshipping just one deity is relatively new in history.

From what I recall from Julius Caesar's text on the Druids, their sites were naturally in natural surroundings: sacred groves, near particularly large oak trees, near sacred springs, possibly in caverns. Druids are a major force IMC, and their sacred sites include all these and mesas or other areas on mountains and hills large enough to conduct a ceremony, on forested islands in the middle of lakes, islands off a forested coast, near active volcanoes, hot springs and active geysers. One really interesting one is in the middle of a vast swamp.
 

Pagan I think is just a catch-all phrase to mean non-Christian. The terms heathen and villain I think were more specifically meant to denote farmers and peasants who might be pagans.

Actually, paganus is latin for "country dweller", in a fashion similar to what we would use "rube" or "hick". The association of country dweller with non-christians comes from the time when sophisticated and educated people were Christian, and the rural holdouts were not.

Villain simply comes from the french for "villa or farm hand" and it got its negative connotation for being someone who acts unchivalrous.

From what I recall from Julius Caesar's text on the Druids, their sites were naturally in natural surroundings: sacred groves, near particularly large oak trees, near sacred springs, possibly in caverns. Druids are a major force IMC, and their sacred sites include all these and mesas or other areas on mountains and hills large enough to conduct a ceremony, on forested islands in the middle of lakes, islands off a forested coast, near active volcanoes, hot springs and active geysers. One really interesting one is in the middle of a vast swamp.

Is this why I can't find an archeological site for druidic practice, because they didn't set up buildings?
 

In the academic context 'discredited' means simply 'something which I have grossly oversimplified into a straw man that I disagree with.'

Not always. Sometimes a group is justifiably exposed as quacks. The social scientists mentioned used to have a lot larger reach than they do now, but largely they are now confined to disciplines that don't have to justify or prove their work. In the case of the history department, archeology and a wider availability of texts generally put these guys out to pasture.
 



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