youspoonybard
First Post
If you have an inherent bonus to str, let's say, does it still remain in effect in your polymorphed form?
I'd say so, but just curious.
I'd say so, but just curious.
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Inherent Bonuses and Polymorph/Wild Shape; Or, Druid Wildshape Smackdown!
- Thread starter youspoonybard
- Start date
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
I'd say yes to an inherent bonus, no to a racial bonus or level-based increase.
-Hyp.
-Hyp.
youspoonybard
First Post
That's what I figured, too.
How much damage do you have to do (and at what level) to submit something to the "Sultans of Smack" thread?
How much damage do you have to do (and at what level) to submit something to the "Sultans of Smack" thread?
CyberSpyder
First Post
Pretty sure it's level 16, 200+ damage/round to a individual target.
youspoonybard
First Post
Ok.
I'm gonna post this here, can you guys find anything wrong with it?
3.5 Druid Squeeze-down
This build requires:
1) Monk's Belt
2) Cloak of Strength +6 (Some item that a Gargantuan snake could wear)
3) +5 inherent bonus to strength.
4) The Natural Spell Feat
5) The Improved Grapple Feat
Step 1: You're level 16! Woohoo! You have a BAB of +12! Celebrate your freedom by Wild Shaping into a Giant Constrictor Snake (MM 3.5 pg 280).
You're huge, and with your Strength setup, you have 25 (base) + 5 (inherent) + 6 (enhancement) = 36. Your type also changes to animal.
Step 2: Animal Growth - You are now Gargantuan. Your strength goes up another 8 points to 44 (+17 modifier).
Step 3: Find an unsuspecting victim. Bite him, and then use your improved grab ability. You have a 12 (BAB) + 17 (Str) + 12 (Gargantuan) + 4 Improved Grapple = +45 to your grapple check. Is it ok to assume that he's grappled?
Step 4: Next round - here's where the fun comes in. Choose to "Damage Your Opponent" - you know, the grapple maneuver where you get to make an opposed grapple check instead of an attack? Plus, your unarmed damage is increase by a) The Monk's Belt, and b) Your being gargantuan. Medium damage 1d8 -> Large -> Huge -> Gargantuan is three steps up, and looking in the DMG, your unarmed strike does 4d6 damage. So, we do 4d6 +17 attacks in an opposed grapple with bonuses of +45/+40/+35. Remember, these are opposed grapple checks: the opponent NEEDS at least a +17 modifier to get out. Can I assume that these all hit?
Of course, so far we've only managed to do nonlethal damage. That's no fun. However, we notice that the Improved Grab ability has kicked in: we have won 3 grapple checks. Normally, for a Huge Snake we'd do 1d10 + 1.5 str damage, but we're not Huge, we're Gargantuan! Thus, we do 2d8 + 25 damage off of each sucessful grapple check! We made three of those!
And that's not the end, nope. The snake also has the Constrict ability, which means, after adjustment just like before, we do another 2d8 + 25 damage off of each check!
So that means, in one round, Druid-Snake has done, if he wins all of his grapple checks:
(4d6 + 17) * 3 points of nonlethal damage (min 63, max 123, avg 93) and (4d8 + 50) * 3 points of lethal damage (min 162, max 246, avg 204)...for a total of between 225 and 369 points of the two combined. In one turn.
Note that the Druid can do *MORE* damage if he wins any other grapple checks during the round, like when the poor person tries to escape.
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Any mistakes? Clarifications needed? Comments?
I'm gonna post this here, can you guys find anything wrong with it?
3.5 Druid Squeeze-down
This build requires:
1) Monk's Belt
2) Cloak of Strength +6 (Some item that a Gargantuan snake could wear)
3) +5 inherent bonus to strength.
4) The Natural Spell Feat
5) The Improved Grapple Feat
Step 1: You're level 16! Woohoo! You have a BAB of +12! Celebrate your freedom by Wild Shaping into a Giant Constrictor Snake (MM 3.5 pg 280).
You're huge, and with your Strength setup, you have 25 (base) + 5 (inherent) + 6 (enhancement) = 36. Your type also changes to animal.
Step 2: Animal Growth - You are now Gargantuan. Your strength goes up another 8 points to 44 (+17 modifier).
Step 3: Find an unsuspecting victim. Bite him, and then use your improved grab ability. You have a 12 (BAB) + 17 (Str) + 12 (Gargantuan) + 4 Improved Grapple = +45 to your grapple check. Is it ok to assume that he's grappled?
Step 4: Next round - here's where the fun comes in. Choose to "Damage Your Opponent" - you know, the grapple maneuver where you get to make an opposed grapple check instead of an attack? Plus, your unarmed damage is increase by a) The Monk's Belt, and b) Your being gargantuan. Medium damage 1d8 -> Large -> Huge -> Gargantuan is three steps up, and looking in the DMG, your unarmed strike does 4d6 damage. So, we do 4d6 +17 attacks in an opposed grapple with bonuses of +45/+40/+35. Remember, these are opposed grapple checks: the opponent NEEDS at least a +17 modifier to get out. Can I assume that these all hit?
Of course, so far we've only managed to do nonlethal damage. That's no fun. However, we notice that the Improved Grab ability has kicked in: we have won 3 grapple checks. Normally, for a Huge Snake we'd do 1d10 + 1.5 str damage, but we're not Huge, we're Gargantuan! Thus, we do 2d8 + 25 damage off of each sucessful grapple check! We made three of those!
And that's not the end, nope. The snake also has the Constrict ability, which means, after adjustment just like before, we do another 2d8 + 25 damage off of each check!
So that means, in one round, Druid-Snake has done, if he wins all of his grapple checks:
(4d6 + 17) * 3 points of nonlethal damage (min 63, max 123, avg 93) and (4d8 + 50) * 3 points of lethal damage (min 162, max 246, avg 204)...for a total of between 225 and 369 points of the two combined. In one turn.
Note that the Druid can do *MORE* damage if he wins any other grapple checks during the round, like when the poor person tries to escape.
------------------------------
Any mistakes? Clarifications needed? Comments?
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I would think that you'd lose access to these items, polymorphing into snake.youspoonybard said:
You don't need Improved Grapple, since constrictor snakes have Improved Grab as an Ex special attack (which you get as a part of polymorph/wild shape).
Your damage estimates look a little screwy to me. If a constrictor snake bites someone, it does bite damage and starts a grapple as a free action. If it succeeds in the grapple, it can do extra constriction damage on top of the bite. It doesn't get to do unarmed damage on top of that.
I don't think so. There's no consequence to failing to escape a grapple, aside from still being grappled. From my reading of the grapple rules, you can only damage your opponent on your turn, with your own grapple checks.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Wildling Clasps...
-Hyp.
youspoonybard
First Post
In 3.5, you keep any items you can wear. I figured a snake that big could manage a cloak, and almost anything can wear a belt. But yes, you can use Wilding Clasps if you're not satisfied [thanks, Hyp].
All of this damage is happening the round *after* you grab the person. See Improved Grab and Constrict in the back of the 3.5 Monster Manual.
"Constrict (EX): A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, after making a successful grapple check...If the creature also has the improved grab ability, it deals constriction damage in addition to damage dealt by the weapon used to grab."
That sums it up pretty nicely. The trick, then, is to get as many grapple checks as you can in one round, with as high a grapple modifier as you can to guarantee sucess, and as high of a strength as possible to do the most damage. Every time you win at an opposed grapple check, you get the Improved Grab and Constrict damage.
If you turn to PHB 3.5 page 156, you'll see that the "Damage Your Opponent" lets you do "...damage to your opponent equivalent to an unarmed strike. Make an opposed grapple check in place of an attack. If you win, you deal nonlethal damage as normal for your unarmed strike...". Emphasis mine.
There's where the trick comes in. By choosing to do opposed grapple checks instead of attacks, you're getting the Constrict and Improved Grab abilities at least 3 times a round, with BAB +12.
The Improved Grapple isn't necessary, it just adds another +4 to every opposed grapple check, to drive the nail through the coffin.
All of this damage is happening the round *after* you grab the person. See Improved Grab and Constrict in the back of the 3.5 Monster Manual.
"Constrict (EX): A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, after making a successful grapple check...If the creature also has the improved grab ability, it deals constriction damage in addition to damage dealt by the weapon used to grab."
That sums it up pretty nicely. The trick, then, is to get as many grapple checks as you can in one round, with as high a grapple modifier as you can to guarantee sucess, and as high of a strength as possible to do the most damage. Every time you win at an opposed grapple check, you get the Improved Grab and Constrict damage.
If you turn to PHB 3.5 page 156, you'll see that the "Damage Your Opponent" lets you do "...damage to your opponent equivalent to an unarmed strike. Make an opposed grapple check in place of an attack. If you win, you deal nonlethal damage as normal for your unarmed strike...". Emphasis mine.
There's where the trick comes in. By choosing to do opposed grapple checks instead of attacks, you're getting the Constrict and Improved Grab abilities at least 3 times a round, with BAB +12.
The Improved Grapple isn't necessary, it just adds another +4 to every opposed grapple check, to drive the nail through the coffin.
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Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Improved Grab (Ex): If a creature with this special attack hits with a melee weapon (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).
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I think that's where he's getting the idea of damage if the opponent attempts to escape, but I'm almost positive that it only applies to grapple checks the creature initiates, not opposed grapple checks where it is the "defender".
-Hyp.
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I think that's where he's getting the idea of damage if the opponent attempts to escape, but I'm almost positive that it only applies to grapple checks the creature initiates, not opposed grapple checks where it is the "defender".
-Hyp.
youspoonybard
First Post
Hypersmurf said:
I was unsure, until I found this:
3.5 PHB, page 64. "An opposed check is a check whose success or failure is determined by comparing the check result to anothers character's check result. In an opposed check, the higher result succeeds, while the lower result fails. In case of a tie, the higher skill modifier wins..."
Regardless of who attempts, if the snake wins, he is successful, and by Improved Grab and Constrict, deals additional damage.
It's in the beginning of the skills section, for those with access only to the SRD.
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