Inherent PC Superiority?

[Janx]

While I can certainly see that one is more heroic if the challenges are tougher, I just saw WAY too many characters who had numbers instead of names at early levels because being average ment they were most likely to die early in the 'good ol days'. So I prefer, as a player and GM, that characters be advantaged at first level. Hopefully, this will encourage them to be played in a more heroic fashion instead of spending most of their early career worrying about survival. YMMV.

I concur.

what seperates a hero from an average person is something exceptional. It might be, that person is the same as everybody else but confidence.

Overall though, as in life, the people doing great things are exceptional. there is always something different about such people. Otherwise, they wouldn't be achieving great things.

If the PCs aren't special in some way, why AREN'T the NPCs standing up to the bad guys? If the PCs aren't backed by some aspect that makes them stronger, other than the fact that "we're PCs, the GM wouldn't kill us right away." then realistically, the PCs would be fools to attempt anything.

 

[Janx]

So basically, saving the city from an invasion ISNT heroic unless the PCs lose something, or take a loss themselves? Or unless they have some change? Saving all teh people isnt heroic then?

Thats silly.

I think chaochou's definition is mis-connected. It's trying to hook up to the wrong concept. I suspect he doesn't want to flag something as Heroic if it was easy for the actor.

Heroic action isn't about losing something, it is about the RISK of losing something. It's about overcoming something that APPEARS greater than you. Once you beat it, it is obvious it is no longer greater than you.

A man rushes into the street to grab a child before she gets hit by a car. This is considered a heroic action by most of society and fiction.

He risks his own life to save the child. If he fails, both will die. If he suceeds, he might only push the child away, getting hit himself.

The car weights 1 ton, and will kill him and the child easily. it is greater and faster than he is. if he is close enough, and moves fast enough, he still might make it. If he doesn, he has effectively bested the car.

If he suceeds fully, he has lost nothing. Thereby disproving Chaochou's original definition.

A man is buying some snacks at a gas station, when a robber rushes in to hold-up the cashier. If he tries to stop the robber, he will be considered heroic.

The man is no doubt risking his life. He could get shot. His actions might induce the robber to shoot everybody, making things worse, not better. The robber might have every intention to shoot the cashier anyway. The man doesn't know that.

Once again, we've got risk. If the man was a former Navy Seal, he has extra training to close quickly, and deal with an armed opponent. So he might very well be "better" than the bad guy. he might in fact be on leave, and be VERY experienced and good at this kind of thing.

In the aftermath, the TV news crew will hail this man a hero. A lone citizen rushing to the aid of stranger. Even if he died. The security camera will tell the tale on the 10 o'clock news. If he succeeds, there will be interviews, and a key to the city.

So skill level versus the challenge is not always a key to defining heroism. The act of stepping up, when others won't/can't is often a key trait to heroism.

And since most people look at the threat, and look at themselves (their stats) and decide that they can't risk leaving their wife and kids as widows and orphans.

This means, a key trait is heroes step up, where others won't. And often, they do so because they THINK they have the means to deal with the problem.

 

[Haltherrion]

I like PCs to have superior stats, a step above the ordinary. I think players just like feeling a little special and not on par with all the other folks in the village.

As to what different it makes to the game, well, honestly very little. I tune my games to challenge the players. If the party has lower stats, the challenges will be a bit easier. So, from a play balance, it makes little difference, from a "players feeling special" it's a plus.

I guess put another way, do you want your PCs feeling special or common? I like the former myself. Obviously, in the end it what they do with it but there isn't that much fantasy fiction where the main characters are truly common. Folks like protagonists that are unique in some way; think that applies to players as well.

As a prospective player in your game, honestly I might find it a little off putting. If everything else seemed fine I'd give it a go but if there were a few other yellow flags, it might tip me to not trying the campaign. It is not necessarily so but it can be a sign of a referee who can be very difficult on the players. I don't want to have my PCs bogged down in mundane challenges; I'd like to be doing heroic stuff

 

[Janx]

..snip..
As to what different it makes to the game, well, honestly very little. I tune my games to challenge the players. If the party has lower stats, the challenges will be a bit easier. So, from a play balance, it makes little difference, from a "players feeling special" it's a plus.

..snip... It is not necessarily so but it can be a sign of a referee who can be very difficult on the players. I don't want to have my PCs bogged down in mundane challenges; I'd like to be doing heroic stuff

this is good.

Let's say char strength is measured in levels. NPCs are level 1.
If you make the PCs also be Level 1, then the threats will be Level 2. And there won't be any reason why the PCs should step up, and the NPCs not. Because they all have the same resources.

If the PCs are better than the village NPCs (Level 2). Then the bad guys will be Level 3. And it is clear to the NPCs that they are out matched (Level 1 vs. Level 3), and the PCs will feel like only they can face this threat.

Additionally, it's not very cool to face Level 2 threats, the same threats your average NPC also could have faced, if only they had the cajones.

It's mucho cool to face that which no man dare stand against.

 

[scourger]

...PCs...destined for greatness from the beginning, separated from the large majority of NPCs in terms of power and capabilities...

Yes, this. The PCs are the heroes. I don't need stuff, but I do need the right capabilities.

 

[JamesonCourage]

Remember, there are no wrong answers. If someone has one definition of heroic, and someone else disagrees, that's fine, but this isn't the thread to call their definition wrong, please. It's just a thread to get a little insight into how other gamers like to run their game.

As always, play what you like

 

[Raven Crowking]

In RCFG, all PCs are "champion class creatures", which means that some deity or Power has taken an interest in their doings. What this means in game terms is that they can shake off damage, because wounds frequently are not as bad as they seem to be. They are just that little bit luckier.

Not all champion class creatures are PCs, of course!


RC

 

[carmachu]

I think chaochou's definition is mis-connected. It's trying to hook up to the wrong concept. I suspect he doesn't want to flag something as Heroic if it was easy for the actor.

Heroic action isn't about losing something, it is about the RISK of losing something. It's about overcoming something that APPEARS greater than you. Once you beat it, it is obvious it is no longer greater than you.

A man rushes into the street to grab a child before she gets hit by a car. This is considered a heroic action by most of society and fiction.

If thats what he means, then fine. But as he wrote it, I'd have to disagree in the most strongest terms. The PC's put their neck on the line and won the day. Thats still heroic.

 

[carmachu]

Remember, there are no wrong answers. If someone has one definition of heroic, and someone else disagrees, that's fine, but this isn't the thread to call their definition wrong, please. It's just a thread to get a little insight into how other gamers like to run their game.

As always, play what you like

Again thats silly. Of course there are. If my idea of running a heroic game is to let the PC's rape, murder, and torture their way from one side of the continet to the other, are you just going to smile and nod in agreement and saying thats heroic?

 

[JamesonCourage]

Again thats silly. Of course there are. If my idea of running a heroic game is to let the PC's rape, murder, and torture their way from one side of the continet to the other, are you just going to smile and nod in agreement and saying thats heroic?

This isn't a thread for debate, as it's not constructive to my original post when I created this thread. If you want to say what you prefer, I'd like to hear it. I'd simply ask you not to come into the thread and start disagreements when that isn't what the thread is about.

Thank you.