Instant Wizard?

[Sigurd]

I'm wondering how to work with this situation in a game.

Char seems to want to be the ultimate skill monkey.
We are playing with a point buy system and he has pillaged his other stats to make his intelligence 20+.
He is beginning as a rogue pretending to be a wizard. I think he is going to be a wizard by 2nd level but he wants the extra 24 skill points he gets from rogue at first level.


I don't have a problem with the rogue level but I am trying to reflect this strategy in the real life game.

I have something of a problem with one becoming an instant wizard at 2nd level while on the campaign trail and keeping up with the other players.


Do you think it unfair that I insist he find a suitable mage tutor to make learning to be a wizard believable?

What have you done with similar situations?



Sigurd

To be clear, I don't have a problem with the basic strategy - I think it underscores a basic skill weakness in the wizard. I'd just like to have a reasonable way to achieve it in the game world.

 

[Nifft]

IMC, there's a cohort who was a 12th level Fighter / Occult Slayer / Exotic Weapons Master. He's got a decent Int but no Wisdom or Charisma to speak of.

Now he's 14th level. He's just taken his second level of Psion (Shaper). Why? He wants repair construct. Also, he now shoots laser beams (energy ray) out of his eyes.

So, IMHO, it's no big deal.

- - -

Regarding the PC in your scenario, let me get this straight: he wants to delay his spell access and reduce his caster level -- he wants to sacrifice the strongest class feature in the game (arcane spellcasting) -- for a few hit points, +1d6 Sneak Attack, and a bunch of skill points?

That would be fine with me.

Basically, any time a spellcaster voluntarily lowers his caster level, he better be getting something sweet in return. I see no problem mechanically with this trade off.

- - -

However, it sounds like you're not asking for mechanical advice, but for story advice. Okay, here's his backstory: he was in Wizard school. He was smart, but lazy. He slacked off and snuck away from class at every opportunity, but was also charming and thus his teachers let him get away with it. He may know some tricks about magic that others don't know (if he has Use Magic Device ranks)... or he may just be a lazy bum who skipped out of class a lot. When he gets serious (next level), he will apply himself, and his abilities will blossom. The transformation will be magical!

Media inspiration: Peter Venkman.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Destil]

It's not in 3.5 but in 3.0 there was some support in the DMG for 1st level multiclassing with two classes, treating both as level 0 in some regards. You may want to try something like that to keep him from being an 'instant wizard'.

Personally if you have a problem with someone advancing "while on the campaign trail" I would instate training rules for all classes. Becoming an instant fighter or instant rogue would also seem weird (learn to use all martial weapons and armor / huge skill bonuses & sneak attack).

 

[Jer]

...

I don't have a problem with the rogue level but I am trying to reflect this strategy in the real life game.

I have something of a problem with one becoming an instant wizard at 2nd level while on the campaign trail and keeping up with the other players.


Do you think it unfair that I insist he find a suitable mage tutor to make learning to be a wizard believable?

What have you done with similar situations?

Is one of his skills "Knowledge (arcana)"? If so I'd say no problem - he's been studying wizardry for a while but it took being "on the road" to finally get something to click for him to start understanding the stuff he's been trying to teach himself.

I think the story implications are mostly going to come down to how magic works in your campaign world. I tend to run campaign worlds where people can "teach themselves" magic if they so choose - they don't need to apprentice themselves to a Master, they can pick it up to some degree as they go along - so these things don't tend to be a problem for sustaining disbelief in my campaign worlds. (If people want to have mentors for any class I encourage it - it can make for great roleplaying - but I don't force it.)

 

[Darklone]

Why don't you simply use the 3.0 apprentice level rules?

 

[Sigurd]

It applies to starting any new class. I want them to at least get some training when they begin.

I'll look at the apprentice level rules.

S

 

[DogBackward]

That's the point of the post above actually. He has had training, it just came before he took his rogue level. As long as he puts at least a few CC ranks in Kn: Arcana, Spellcraft and a few in UMD, I don't see a problem. Those skills represent his previous magical training, he just hasn't actually applied this training... yet.

Make sure the first adventure or two has a wizard, so he can yoink the spellbook. Then have him RP reading the spellbook and maybe practicing a little (remember, he's already go the basic skills he needs), and let him take the Wizard level next level. But you choose his spells, since he's learning/training from somebody else's spellbook.

You both get what you want. He does some re-training for you, and you don't make him waste time with pointless in-game mentor-hunting.

Think of it this way... does finding a mentor and studying for a week make for an action-packed, rousing adventure that everybody will have fun with? If so, then you're probably the best damn GM in existance, and you should go for it. If not, then leave it alone. "Hand-wave" it, and get on with the real fun: the adventuring.

 

[CleverNickName]

To be clear, I don't have a problem with the basic strategy - I think it underscores a basic skill weakness in the wizard. I'd just like to have a reasonable way to achieve it in the game world.

Perhaps this character owns an intelligent magic item, which contains the sentience of a powerful wizard. This magic item would be his tutor, giving him the teachings he needs and helping to shape him along the path of arcane magic. (Yes, I know it sounds hokey, but bear with me for a minute.)

Since you would be handing this magic item out at 1st level, I would suggest you make it completely useless except for the purposes of teaching. It could be a book, a scroll, a mundane stick of wood shaped like a wand, whatever. Most of the time it would be taking up space in the character's pack...but when it is time for study, the item would offer instruction in the proper methods of spellcasting (writing would magically appear on the scroll or the book's pages, for example).

A book like the one in "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets" would be perfect...it would allow the character a chance to interact with the NPC teacher by writing on the pages and getting a written response (in an hour or two, perhaps days), but would be useless for any other purpose. The PC wizard could still take lessons, be punished and rewarded, and seek counsel from his NPC master just like any other apprentice...but could do it from the road.

 

[papastebu]

The above post--Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets--would make an interesting plot-hook. BUT... it could be as simple as the rogue being so smart as to make it fairly easy to comprehend a 1st-level spell found while adventuring as a rogue. Maybe he/she has had a strong interest in the arcane--discuss with the player, and find out. If they don't know yet, make them find out--and it only really surfaces once they get ahold of some real magic. If it turns out that the later wizard thing is what they intend, but they want the boost for skill points, they should have ranks in "use magic device" and "spellcraft" and "Knowledge: Arcana". This would make for a believable development.

If your objection is just to the idea of picking up the rogue class for all those skill points, then this solution should take care of that also. What's it going to hurt, really, if this player does this? Just make them account for it in character--and I don't mean, necessarily, through role-playing, but more in a backstory kind of way.

 

[GreatLemur]

He is beginning as a rogue pretending to be a wizard. I think he is going to be a wizard by 2nd level but he wants the extra 24 skill points he gets from rogue at first level.

This phenomenon is part of why I really dislike the fact that first level "counts" more than subsequent levels.

Media inspiration: Peter Venkman.

Niiiiice. That line alone makes me want to create a character based on such a concept. (But I'm actually already playing a magic-school washout of a Wizard.)