Interesting comment from a player

[Snowy]

not that its that relevant to whether I would allow it or not but....

in the case of the repercussions, no trader worth their salt is going to admit publicly that someone made them a laughing stock by selling them fools gold, it'd encourage every young trickster to come and have a try wasting their time and probably some experienced scam artists to come and knock off his place of business in a more complete manner (if he made that simple a mistake he wont have done xxx, where xxx is a security precaution).

depending on power level of you and the merchant I can see a whole host of possibilities
being more careful in the future, not trading with you again, jacking up prices, selling dodgy goods to you, acquiring objects you want and holding them in a monopoly, bad mouthing your name to other merchants, trying to frame you for bad trade/a crime, having your stuff stolen then selling it back to you, having your stuff stolen, hiring a bounty hunter, hiring an assassin, hiring an adventuring party to make the money back from you, dealing with fiends to get them to assassinate you, arranging to have your base destroyed, arranging an invasion of your home neighbourhood by black dragons, getting the unlimited hordes of fiends/devils/githyanki/mindflayers to invade your home prime material plane and enslave all your race and kind.

someday I shall run a thieves game and have well statted merchants and a good developed city and let the players run riot and see what I can build from them sowing the seeds of their destruction!

 

[Kyrail]

Well here is what I do.

Firstly, if you have guys just selling magic items, your world of obviously high magicish. So when I have PC's saying they'll sell an item to an shop owner, the owner always asks them to take it to get apraised by a local trusted wizard, and return with a receipt... I suppose the receipt could be forged, which would be fine... but the facts are any shop owner worth his salt isnt gonna take anyone's word no matter how silver tounged they are. The overhead of the identify (which the shop owner pays for if it is indeed magical) is a much lower cost than paying out for a fake magic item.

If no wizard around, they I dont see why he would start up a magical shop in the first place. Bad business practice really.

 

[Stalker0]

If you play by the RAW you should allow it.

The Bluff skill already takes into account getting people to do what he normally would not do.

For instance, I'm sure this merchant would never normally accept a potion without identifying first.

But the pc is acting desperate!! He needs to leave now, that water breathing waterever will save his life...slowing down aging ain't going to help if he's dead. The pc says this is a one time deal, he has to leave immediately.

Damn it the merchant thinks!! I can't do it, I just can't take the chance.

He looks back at the pc, who looks geniunely scared and very belivable.

Its so much money!! The merchant screams in his mind, and I have the perfect client to sell it to!!


PC makes a bluff check, with a heavy heavy penalty for the merchant's circumstances (even if the merchant believes the PC, its a big risk, and not one he normally takes). If the PC makes the check, then the merchant gives in. IF he fails, its probably not that the merchant didn't believe him, its just too big of a risk to take.

 

[fafhrd]

Well here is what I do.

Firstly, if you have guys just selling magic items, your world of obviously high magicish. So when I have PC's saying they'll sell an item to an shop owner, the owner always asks them to take it to get apraised by a local trusted wizard, and return with a receipt... I suppose the receipt could be forged, which would be fine... but the facts are any shop owner worth his salt isnt gonna take anyone's word no matter how silver tounged they are. The overhead of the identify (which the shop owner pays for if it is indeed magical) is a much lower cost than paying out for a fake magic item.

If no wizard around, they I dont see why he would start up a magical shop in the first place. Bad business practice really.

When my last group had an extended stay in the town where Speaker in Dreams is set, I did something similar. I set up a Guild of Assessors, reputable, bonded mages who identify all magic items for trades of significant value. They would use arcane marks to show validation and had a series of runners who carried items to and from the guild.

Unless there was a recent inheritance, people with wealth tend to be so because they know how to acquire and keep that money. They aren't bots and I wouldn't have them lose their shirts just because the dice said he bought the other guy's claims, except under very unusual circumstances(like they had a long running relation of honest dealing).

 

[mcrow]

Stalker:That's really just another way of doing what everyone else here was saying. You end up getting to the same resolution one way or another.

 

[Mercule]

Sure. Why not? Just don't do it to anyone in the royal family. Or the Mages' Guild. Or Merchant's Guild (unlikely, I know). Or, especially, the Thieves' Guild.

My PCs have met a fence. They shared a list of magic items they wanted sold, magic items they wanted purchased, and similar things. Some of those things, he'll have to go to anyother town -- or send a message -- to check on. Now, the PCs have decided they aren't entirely comfortable dealing with "back door" methods and they'd rather work with the various guilds, etc. themselves. I really don't think they've considered the ramifications of backing out now. After all, the guy is just "an honest business man".

So, my PCs are on the other end of the stick, in a manner of speaking.

 

[Roadkill101]

If the player has invested the character with the skills necessary to pull of the scam, then yes. And if the said skills aren't developed, then yes. I'll allow a character to generally at least attempt anything under the sun, if the skills necessary for succes are developed then the better the results at whatever the attempted action will be.
Of course, should the scam be discovered.....

 

[Murazor]

In general I don't think I would allow it, because I assume that all large transactions of magical items (over roughly 1,000gp) are confirmed to be genuine by a trusted spellcaster. This holds for both sides of the transaction.

In this particular case, perhaps. I doubt someone trying to get their retirement funds together would so easily hand his life's savings over without some checking.

On a related note: Do any of you do the reverse, selling stuff that later appears to be worthless trash? Again, since haggling/trading happens behind the scenes IMC, this is not really an issue for me. But I don't think it would be appreciated and/or interesting if you're making the players paranoid about being scammed with every purchase they make; it's just too much of a bother, and just detracts from the actual fun stuff: adventuring!

 

[arscott]

If it's fair game for the players, It's fair game for the DM too.

I'd make this come back and haunt them.

Any adventure that lives to reach retirement age is going to be pretty formidable.
This one's experienced enought that he had funds to blow on a ring of water breathing, rather than something useful like a holy shocking burst longsword. That'll spell trouble.

On the other hand, that might be too predictable.

In many respects, old age is an affliction that can be cured by a good attitude. So if the fighter feels younger, he won't have any reason to suspect the PC was lying (unless he tries climbing walls, or somesuch). But what If he's not satisfied with de-aging only a few years? What if he wants more? Worse yet, what if he tells all of his friends?

 

[Devilkiller]

Hmm...If you're interested in a "reasonable" game I guess you should "allow" whatever the NPC in question would do from a roleplaying perspective. If you don't care whether things make much sense then you can safely let the dice fall where they may and have evil bards routinely convincing peasants to chop off their own legs so that the foot eating monsters won't come and poison them while they sleep (the poison numbs your feet and legs so that you won't wake up when the monsters begin feasting, but eventually it can work its way up to your heart and kill you). In your case it sounds like there was a fair amount of roleplaying at least.

Early in my campaign I was faced by the fact that it would be kind of pointless to Identify cheap magic items. The owner of my ubiquitous chain of magic shoppes came up with a method that some of you may or may not find useful. When dealing in small quantities of relatively cheap magical goods he is willing to forego an Identify if the seller signs with his Arcane Mark.