D&D 5E Interrupting spellcasting

NotActuallyTim

First Post
Isn't there any sort of AoO or spellcastus interruptus module in the DMG? (I'm starting to wish I hadn't run the Next playtest so much, it's left me perpetually perplexed about exactly what rules and modules actually exist in which form in 5e.)

Speed Factor initiative provides a somewhat brutal form of it. Since casting spells makes a character go later in the initiative order, it's possible to drop them before they can cast. Of course, that's really, really lenient, all things considered.

For people who do use Speed Factor, requiring a Concentration save for characters 'in the middle' of casting a spell when they are struck could prove useful. However, because reactions come after something else in standard 5E rules (so no interruptions unless specified, ala counterspell), inserting something similar would take some more thought. Certainly not impossible, but in need of careful specifications to prevent abuse.
 

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Ilbranteloth

Explorer
Magic is so dominant in 5E that I've considered re-imposing AD&D restrictions on spellcasting: can't cast a non-bonus-action spell while riding a horse or on a moving ship; can't move during a turn when you cast a spell; getting hit when you're trying to cast a spell forces a concentration check even if it's not a concentration spell (Fireball), or it fizzles.

My goal in doing this would not be really about spellcaster balance as about flavor (I find the idea casting Phantom Steed for ten minutes while riding another Phantom Steed full speed away from the Tarrasque... grotesque) and my AD&D prejudices; and it would at least make kiting less attractive and swing the ranged vs. melee balance closer to melee (you'll need melee bodyguards if you want to be a combat wizard), which is something that I do care about because right now there is very little reason for melee combatants to even exist.

I haven't actually done it because it would be a fairly radical change in 5E rules, and I generally prefer to take the game as it is whenever possible (reasons related to the Czege Principle), but I want you to know that other people have noticed the same trend you have and find it fairly reprehensible.

This is exactly what I'm doing in my campaigns - I'm not worried about balance, but flavor. I totally understand the direction they've gone with the rules for 5e in terms of magic, class abilities and such. And I think it's the right direction in general. But a great many of the rules are designed to make things easy for a "typical" group that isn't as concerned about the rules making sense within the world. Level advancement is a good example.

I do have the possibility of interrupting spellcasting in combat. Since we don't roll initiative, it depends on the actions of the round. If somebody is trying to cast a spell, and somebody else targets them, they make an initiative check (an opposed check). If the attack occurs first, then the spellcaster must make a concentration check. Otherwise they spell is released before the attack strikes (although it can still disrupt a spell that requires concentration).

Failure on the concentration check, though, doesn't mean it automatically fails. I have a modified Wild Magic Surge process - there's about a 50% chance that the spell will still work, otherwise it might fizzle (sometimes losing the spell slot, sometimes not), backfire (dangerous for the caster), misfire (which is typically just magical energy shooting in a random direction), or a wild magic surge in which case just about anything can happen.

My house rules in general are to make the game more like AD&D while taking advantage of the new rules. I've moved all damage-causing cantrips back up to 1st-level too, for example.

I am working on finalizing my house rules for "5th Edition D&D with an AD&D Feel" which I'll post to DMs Guild. Not sure exactly when, but I'd love a group or two to playtest some stuff.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Is there a mechanism in 5e (other than Counterspell) to keep a spellcaster from casting?
I am thinking of old editions where you ready an action to attack and force a concentration check.

For spells that take longer than an action to cast that's still the rule - it takes concentration and can be interrupted.'

Casting has components: Verbal, Somatic and Material. So potentially you could ready and deprive the caster of one of those.

Otherwise there isn't by the rules. Which is balanced against 5e spellcasting. If you wanted to bring back that option, I'd suggest needing to buff casters in some other way.
 

For me it is about balance, and the other factors - how good non-casters had it, how powerful casting was - fluctuated even as casting got easier and easier. Unfortunately it fluctuated, it didn't just move in the opposite direction. If casting had been getting less overpowered & non-casters more capable while casting steadily got easier, it might've all just equaled out. Not how it went.

Thanks. :) 5e's attitude is one of being good with radical rule changes. Isn't there any sort of AoO or spellcastus interruptus module in the DMG? (I'm starting to wish I hadn't run the Next playtest so much, it's left me perpetually perplexed about exactly what rules and modules actually exist in which form in 5e.)

FWIW, I'm about to start a new campaign with new players in the next week or so, and this thread has persuaded me to add the spell to my house rules document. That's not quite the same as making it a definite house rule for this new campaign, because I will take input from players--but I like the flavor, I like how natural it is to say "casting a (non-reaction, non-bonus-action) spell requires concentration and moving or getting hit interrupts your concentration", and I like the fact that it reduces the temptation for whole parties to rely purely on cantrips like Eldritch Blast, Booming Blade and Greenflame Blade instead of weapons.

Here's the current form of the rule:

7.) Casting a non-bonus-action/non-reaction spell while moving at more than half speed, riding a horse or on a moving ship forces a concentration save every round even if it's not a concentration spell (Fireball) or it fizzles; getting hit when you're trying to cast a non-reaction spell likewise forces a concentration save to avoid fizzle (if you've been hit earlier on this round and start casting after due to Delay, you must make the same concentration save.) Fizzling does not cost spell points but does waste your action to no effect.

I don't think this cripples wizards but it does make magic less of a no-brainer.

If you wanted to bring back that option, I'd suggest needing to buff casters in some other way.

In my game, I think getting to use DMG spell points counts as compensation. Spell points makes spellcasters more flexible and powerful, while also being simpler for both players and DMs. Win/win, but the increased power means I don't feel bad about wanting to introduce another wrinkle that incidentally makes spellcasters slightly weaker. (Besides, you know it's going to get used against evil wizards as well as PCs.)
 
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In case it hasn't been mentioned, if a caster uses the Ready action to ready a spell, they begin casting it when they take the action, and have to maintain concentration up until they release the spell with their reaction--so it can be interrupted by damaging them in that time frame.
 

Arial Black

Adventurer
I figure that if carrying a shield without proficiency can prevent spellcasting completely, it's perfectly fair for a giant barbarian bending back both your wrists to at least impair somatic components.

It appears that the most effective way to prevent spellcasting in 5E is to buy a load of shields.

Simply stand next to the caster, Ready an action.

Trigger = when caster begins to provide the components (verbal/somatic) for a spell. This is as opposed to waiting for the caster to complete the components of a spell, which is just insane.

Readied Action = equip the caster with a shield. If he's not proficient, he cannot cast! :D
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
In my game, I think getting to use DMG spell points counts as compensation. Spell points makes spellcasters more flexible and powerful, while also being simpler for both players and DMs. Win/win, but the increased power means I don't feel bad about wanting to introduce another wrinkle that incidentally makes spellcasters slightly weaker. (Besides, you know it's going to get used against evil wizards as well as PCs.)

Yeah, we run a yearly convention (this is the 42nd year) and just switched the rules over to 5e. We did a series off playtests with the variants we wanted to best keep the feel including spell points, but we eventually discarded them because people were using a lot more high level spells, which had a commensurate bigger impact for the action economy, plus it lead to more 5 minute adventuring days as the casters used their big guns a few times and then were out. But we were looking for least common denominator issues, doesn't mean that's how it goes down at your table.

So the idea of introducing casting interruption is to have the foes interrupt the PC casters more than vice-versa, or do you expect the PCs to use it more often?
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
It appears that the most effective way to prevent spellcasting in 5E is to buy a load of shields.

Simply stand next to the caster, Ready an action.

Trigger = when caster begins to provide the components (verbal/somatic) for a spell. This is as opposed to waiting for the caster to complete the components of a spell, which is just insane.

Readied Action = equip the caster with a shield. If he's not proficient, he cannot cast! :D

We can go one better! Time to get into armor is just to get the full AC. So buy split, and use a ready action to put it on them! This way not only can't they cast, they have a move penalty and they don't get the +2 AC from the shield.

*grin*
 

Yeah, we run a yearly convention (this is the 42nd year) and just switched the rules over to 5e. We did a series off playtests with the variants we wanted to best keep the feel including spell points, but we eventually discarded them because people were using a lot more high level spells, which had a commensurate bigger impact for the action economy, plus it lead to more 5 minute adventuring days as the casters used their big guns a few times and then were out. But we were looking for least common denominator issues, doesn't mean that's how it goes down at your table.

So the idea of introducing casting interruption is to have the foes interrupt the PC casters more than vice-versa, or do you expect the PCs to use it more often?

The main idea of introducing casting interruption is to change the way magic works in a way that makes it more pleasingly aesthetic to my old-school sensibilities. It's not a balance change per se.

But I do also want to alter the incentives for players thinking up PC builds, yes. A PC Fighter 1/Wizard X tank fighting in melee with Greenflame Blade has more reason to care about Warcaster, because disrupting his concentration also disrupts his attacks, and more reason to consider maybe just being a pure Fighter X+1 instead. A Paladin has a little bit of extra incentive to consider Wrathful Smite over Paladin spells like Wrathful Smite which do as much and more, just because at least Divine Smite can't be interrupted.

And I do want the freedom as a DM to create scenarios with evil wizards wherein the PCs can gain an advantage by separating the evil wizard from his guards. If ambushing Cthuchik the Mighty Evoker alone in his sanctum just means that Cthuchik is going to Meteor Swarm the 8th level PCs into oblivion before they can finish depleting his 95 HP, then that scenario is no fun and I shouldn't create it as an 8th level adventure. But if it's possible for the PCs to kidnap Cthuchik and hold him ransom so that his army will abandon its assault on Tolnedra, then I can set up that scenario after all. I think this scenario is possible to run under PHB rules just by expecting the PCs to gag Cthuchik and capture his hands, etc., but if that's the only way to do it I find it a bit boring, and as mentioned it also doesn't fit my headcanon aesthetic for how magic ought to work. I like it if "Cthuchik mutters words of power and an eeries light begins to glow in the heavens, even though you're indoors--the light grows stronger and stronger and you can now see that it's aimed directly at you! He's casting Meteor Swarm" can be answered by "I punch him in the throat" as well as "I stick a sock in his mouth." I dunno, D&D is a game about violence, y'know? and violently interrupting a spell with violence is a thing that used to be possible, and that it seems like should be possible again in my 5E game.

If you're asking for my assessment of who is going to get interrupted more often, I'll say: (1) PCs are more likely to be spellcasters, but optimized PCs will have ways to mitigate their concentration vulnerabilities and so they won't actually get interrupted all that often; (2) I don't use all that many intelligent spellcasters in my game normally, because I prefer a more low-magic/low-powered aesthetic that relies on MM/FeF/ToB/Volo's monsters than on a gameworld full NPCs who are all more powerful than the PCs--I like having the PCs be remarkable and heroic, not just shadowrunners doing a job for Mr. Johnson. So I suspect that overall, PCs will be more affected by the rule than NPCs and monsters will, but nerfing the PCs per se is not the goal.
 

ProphetSword

Explorer
This will be an unpopular opinion in this thread. I'm reading a lot about AD&D sensibilities and how some DMs want to have 5e feel a certain way. That's fine and all, but I think people are overlooking the primary reason why WotC removed the option to interrupt spells in this way: It's not fun for the caster. Wasting your round to cast a single spell that doesn't end up going off is a serious fun-killer.

Something to think about.
 

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