Intimidate, or "whoops I wasted my skill points"

[FireLance]

re: diplomacy - someone doesn't have to like you in order to agree with the negotiated settlement you've proposed.

In my view, if he sees the negotiated settlement as a net positive for him, and he thinks he's unlikely to get a better deal, a Diplomacy check isn't even necessary.

Getting him to agree to accept a deal that is less than what he thinks he can get, or getting him to think that he isn't going to be able to get a better deal, or making him worry that the deal will be off if he keeps haggling, is where Diplomacy, Bluff or Intimidate comes in.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Is this a troll? Because the OP hasn't come back to answer any of the follow up questions. I too would like to know where he is getting his info on intimidate?

FWIW, I like how Elder Scrolls Oblivion handles social interaction. Some people only respond to a dominate or intimidating personality. A king or noble, maybe not so much. A commoner or prisioner, I can see Intimidate working very well on. Will Intimidate be used every time? No, just like any other skill.

 

[zoroaster100]

I would strongly disagree with a redefinition of Diplomacy as making someone like you. The common use of the term applies to negotiation -- the skill of bargaining by mutual compromise.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Intimidate should be more useful than it is in RAW 3rd edition. I've houseruled a few uses for it. For example, it should be more useful for getting enemies to surrender a fight, or flee. "DROP. YOUR. SWORD."

If that was supposed to be an interesting fight, however... this is why DMs make NPCs immune to it. Goes double for BBEGs.

 

[Pale Jackal]

I'd largely use Diplomacy as 'Persuasion.' I can understand desiring a skill to make your character more likeable... but really, I think that can be done with roleplay, most of the time, and when it comes time to ask for a favor, it's time for 'Persuasion' (with a situational modifier, perhaps) anyway.

 

[TheGogmagog]

Is this a troll? Because the OP hasn't come back to answer any of the follow up questions. I too would like to know where he is getting his info on intimidate?

What is there to answer?

At present, it seems that intimidate is a waste of skill points. It has the short term effects of bluff or diplomacy, but suffers because:

DMs like to make their NPCs immune to it
It wears off in a few minutes
It carries stiff roleplaying penalties
So - no doubt (in my mind) that as 3.5 has it, it's a waste of skill points.

How would you like to see it in 4e?

I see no supposition about how it works in 4e, it was a simple question about how you would like it to be.

I assume there is some source for it's existence in 4e. Intimidate does show up in the 4e Pre-Release Rules as:
Intimidate: Use this skill to influence others through hostile actions and overt threats

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

If that was supposed to be an interesting fight, however... this is why DMs make NPCs immune to it. Goes double for BBEGs.

The same applies to diplomacy in this scenario, too. A rushed Diplomacy check to make someone go from hostile to friendly isn't exactly what the DM had in mind, and it's also quite annoying if the fight looked to be pretty interesting to the PCs.

 

[Saishu_Heiki]

Intimidate: Getting the subject to do what you want by playing on his fears.

I think of intimidate during the first scene of Phantom Menace when the Jedi have just landed on Naboo and are talking to Jar-Jar.

"That is the sound of a thousand terrible things coming this way. If they find us, they will crush us, smash us into little pieces, and blast us into oblivion."

They are not threatening the gungan directly (unfortunately), but they are using his fear to convince him to do something that he had already decided against.

 

[Patlin]

I would have preferrred Persuasion over seperate Intimidate, Bluff and Diplomacy. The seperation leads to silliness. We were discussing a similar point at my last game. Let's say my rogue, skilled in Bluff but not the other two, discovers a raid of orcs heading toward the town. He goes there to warn them, but they seem reluctant to believe him. To use his skill and have the best chance of getting them to act in some way, he must lie in some way.

Therefore:

Diplomacy: "A squad of orcs is heading for your front gate!"
Reaction: "Why should we believe you?"

Intimidate: "If you don't start to mobilize right now, they're going to burn down this town."
Reaction: "You're clearly exagerating."

Bluff: "Did I say Orcs? I meant Goblins."
Reaction: "To arms! To arms!"

 

[LostSoul]

I like this definition: To make timid or fearful. It seems to be a popular one.