Intimidate ..too good?

[Astrosicebear]

If a player makes an Intimidate check opposed by will when the target(s) bloodied, target must surrender.

Penalties include +5 unfriendly, +10 hostile, +5 (-5 penalty to roll) if you dont speak their language.

1st lvl Dragonborn Pally +13 = +2 racial, +3 (cha), +5 trained, +3 skill focus (feat), +0 (1/2 lvl)

Avg Will defense of appropriate lvl mobs 12-15.

Even considering a full +15 to the DC its not bad at 1st lvl. Taking Linguist will help negate a -5 penalty, and the best part is you make a check against each opponent (bloodied) that can see/hear you. Its not really limited by squares.

Now some DM's may rule that certain beasties dont surrender, agreed. But orcs, goblins, humanoids most certainly will. And for each one that surrenders thats gotta add a penalty to the others saves (ala an old morale check).

 

[Family]

Irontooth. Kneel. Now.

---
Mal: "That bumblebee laid down arms at the first sign of inevitable crushing defeat, can you imagine such a cowardly creature?"

 

[Argyuile]

Then again if they surrender and are not restrained who says they don't change their minds and pick up a sword the moment the PC's turn their backs to deal with their still fighting buddies?

 

[Westwind]

Irontooth. Kneel. Now.

---
Mal: "That bumblebee laid down arms at the first sign of inevitable crushing defeat, can you imagine such a cowardly creature?"

Given some of Irontooth's abilities, hilarity could ensue...

"Surrender!"
"Okay..."
2 rounds later
"Wait, I'm feeling better--bring it, Mr. PC!"
*wack*
"Surrender!"
"Okay..."
/repeat

 

[Harr]

This is especially weird considering that

(KotS spoilers)
[sblock]Irontooth is supposed to go frickin BERSERK once he gets to bloodied, I can imagine quite the opposite happening if a character tries to talk him down when he's in his blood frenzy thing or whatever it is.[/sblock]

I think it's a case of some qualifier (ie target must be lower level or not an elite or a maybe even be a minion) that should have been put in there but wasn't.

 

[SableWyvern]

At a glance, I'd be inclined to make the following changes:

Only effects a single target.

For non-minions, I'd go with Dazed and/or Weakened, save ends. If successfully intimidated again while still under the effects, then they break. Minions break on first success.

A broken target surrenders or flees, as appropriate for their nature and situation.

 

[mmu1]

Then again if they surrender and are not restrained who says they don't change their minds and pick up a sword the moment the PC's turn their backs to deal with their still fighting buddies?

Who says enemies the PCs "kill" aren't just faking it, and don't get up and attack at an inconvenient moment?

You don't do it (or don't do it more than once, anyway) for the simple reason that - in my experience, anyway - players really don't appreciate it when their successful actions get turned into an advantage for the bad guys by DM fiat.

 

[Harr]

The saving grace is probably that the skill text includes "Your Intimidate checks are made against the target's Will defense OR against a DC set by the DM. The target's general attitude and other conditional modifiers such as what you're seeking to accomplish or what you're asking for might apply to the DC."

Yet another case of 4e leaving to the DM what should be left to the DM.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

I think I'm ok with this.

let's say the dragonborn character above intimidates bloodied joe kobold an even-level NPC he's been trading blows with for a few rounds.

Because joe is hostile, the DC is 22, which means the Dragonborn needs a 9+ to intimidate this guy (which again, I'm cool with because Dragonborn are good at intimidating, and Paladins typically have high Cha scores).

Of course, a lot of it also depends on what the player is doing to initiative intimidation, and what the bloodied NPC's demeanor is. If you've got someone like Irontooth, who goes absolutely blood crazy when he's berserk, then I think another 5-10 added to the DC is appropriate.

 

[Korgoth]

*sigh*

I was really getting excited about 4E. But the last several things I've heard have all been a **** up the *** of fun gameplay.