Introducing Enlightened Grognard

[CuRoi]

Still looking through the document and I like many things I see, though some I'm not sold on just yet. As I mentioned previously, I was working on my own collection of house rules so I'm not sure I'll use the document as presented, but I may incorporate some things.

One question I do have is why keep saves? We seem to have had a very similar approach with "training" attributes (or applying a BAB to attributes.) The way I set it up, Willpower is just a Wsidom Defense; Reflex a Dexterity Defense and Fortitude a Constitution Defense. The only reason for maintaining the save categories once you start "training" Attributes seems to be the sacred cow issue.

Of course, I've tried starting a few threads with my ideas and heard nothing but crickets so I may be way off anyone else's ideas : )

 

[amnuxoll]

One question I do have is why keep saves? We seem to have had a very similar approach with "training" attributes (or applying a BAB to attributes.) The way I set it up, Willpower is just a Wisdom Defense; Reflex a Dexterity Defense and Fortitude a Constitution Defense. The only reason for maintaining the save categories once you start "training" Attributes seems to be the sacred cow issue.

I do remember considering just the approach you describe. And you're right it was the sacred cow that played a big role in keeping me from rolling the defenses and saves together with the attributes.

But sacred cows are serious business. Keeping them in makes it easier to convert d20 monsters and NPCs to EG.

My other reason is that I really like the way that 4e always uses the same target number for all saving throws and I wanted to incorporate that idea.

Finally, using one set of categories for (mostly) offensive stuff like attacks and skills and a different set of categories for defensive stuff (defenses and saving throws) is a comforting division.

 

[Thanael]

Belkar the Rogue

11 levels rogue, 4 sorcerer (first level sorcerer, then 11 levels of rogue, then the remaining three of sorcerer)

Does it make a difference if his first level was sorcerer or rogue? If yes why? One of the great changes in PF was imo that there's mechanically no difference between a Class x 1/ Class y 1 and a Class y 1 / Class x 1.


Does EG cover epic levels ?

 

[CuRoi]

I do remember considering just the approach you describe. And you're right it was the sacred cow that played a big role in keeping me from rolling the defenses and saves together with the attributes.

But sacred cows are serious business. Keeping them in makes it easier to convert d20 monsters and NPCs to EG.

I agree, it's the best approach for simplicity sake. I'm overcomplicated though and prefer my cows well-done. There is definitely something to be said for being able to make conversions on the fly. I haven't gone to monsters yet with the ideas I am toying aorund with, but I am also considering going back to 2e with monster stat blocks largely simplified and very different from PCs. At the very least taking something more similar to the 4e approach.

My other reason is that I really like the way that 4e always uses the same target number for all saving throws and I wanted to incorporate that idea.

Finally, using one set of categories for (mostly) offensive stuff like attacks and skills and a different set of categories for defensive stuff (defenses and saving throws) is a comforting division.

I'm not a huge fan of using the same target number as I like having more variation to distinguish between the classes. I have divided out the attributes:

Offensive (modifier + training + d20)
Strength, Intelligence, Charisma
Defensive (modifier + training +10)
Wisdom, Dexterity, Constitution

So there is still a distinct category, but again, how comforting it all depends on how you like your steak.

_________________
www.eyrurpg.com

 

[Janx]

This is rather anecdotal! =) FWIW, I am a higher level wizard than you are by your definition and also definitely not a genius. (Contact me off list if you'd like to have a wizard duel!) Nonetheless, I disagree (albeit very mildly) with this sentiment. See my comments in the post above.

Outside, by the swingset. Children love watching wizard duels. Until one of them loses an eye and swears a blood vendetta.


I draw my inspiration from folks like Ben Franklin. Dudes who are multi-talented. If nothing else, anecdotes give examples to support whatever game rule you got, and ignore anecdotes that contradict...

 

[amnuxoll]

Does it make a difference if his first level was sorcerer or rogue?

Yes, the order does matter. Personally, I like that it matters. Please elaborate on why this is bad?

Does EG cover epic levels ?

Sorry, no. =/ If anyone makes it to 18th level playing EG, I'll come up with some! =)

 

[Clownmite]

I'd just like to say that this looks like a great system, and I like the philosophy around it very much. I don't think I can convince my players to give it a go, since we just learned 3.5 for our first system, but I'm thinking about adding combat tokens to my next campaign.

Do you have any suggestions as to how it should convert? For example, something like Inspire Courage - should that grant x tokens/round to players (rather than the +x bonuses). I'm thinking that anything that gives + modifiers can give a token of the most appropriate type, but I'm afraid that having these modifiers come from many sources might make them overpowered.

 

[amnuxoll]

Do you have any suggestions as to how it should convert? For example, something like Inspire Courage - should that grant x tokens/round to players (rather than the +x bonuses). I'm thinking that anything that gives + modifiers can give a token of the most appropriate type, but I'm afraid that having these modifiers come from many sources might make them overpowered.

Thanks for your kind words about EG.

I give some general guidelines for converting temporary modifiers to tokens in the Conversion Guide (Chapter 12): "In general, a temporary +1 bonus equates to about 1 token. A permanent +1 bonus equates to about 1 token per encounter. These are rough values and, in particular, effects that last for an entire encounter should grant about twice as many tokens. This might seem like the PC is getting less of a bonus since a combat is likely to last more than 2 rounds. However, the inherent flexibility of tokens makes them much more valuable."

For a conversion of Inspire Courage in particular, check out the Song of Courage feat.
[sblock=Song of Courage]Name: Song of Courage
Areas of Mastery: Performance
Prerequisites: 1 rank in Perform
Description: You can make a Perform check as a standard action to inspire your allies. Every ally that can hear you gains a number of tokens equal to your Perform check result divided-by 15. Each player may decide what type of tokens his character receives. Each subsequent round you can maintain your song as a swift action. Each time you do this, you may make a new Perform check and grant additional tokens. Should you ever fail to maintain your song on a given turn, you can no longer grant tokens this way unless you restart the song with a standard action.[/sblock]

That's the conversion approach I settled on. We had a bard in one of my low-level playtest groups and I was pleased with to see that, for the first time ever!, a first level bard easily could be a really valuable part of a party and a satisfying character to play because of his unique contribution.

:AMN:

 

[Clownmite]

I give some general guidelines for converting temporary modifiers to tokens in the Conversion Guide (Chapter 12): "In general, a temporary +1 bonus equates to about 1 token. A permanent +1 bonus equates to about 1 token per encounter. These are rough values and, in particular, effects that last for an entire encounter should grant about twice as many tokens. This might seem like the PC is getting less of a bonus since a combat is likely to last more than 2 rounds. However, the inherent flexibility of tokens makes them much more valuable."

I did look at the conversion guide; I was under the impression that it was converting 3.5 to EG, whereas all I want to do here is stick the combat token mechanic in 3.5 so my players don't have to learn a new system.

My question is basically: would it be appropriate to play 3.5 with the blanket statement "Any spell, class ability, etc, that would grant a +X bonus for Y turns will now grant X tokens for Y turns"?

 

[amnuxoll]

My question is basically: would it be appropriate to play 3.5 with the blanket statement "Any spell, class ability, etc, that would grant a +X bonus for Y turns will now grant X tokens for Y turns"?

Sorry I misunderstood. I think it's doable but you would need to be prepared for some negotiation with the players. There were some things in the SRD that I felt didn't quite work with a straight conversion like you suggest.