Klaus
First Post
Or perhaps go by tier:
Novice - Levels 1-3
Adventurer - Levels 4-16
Epic - Levels 17-20
D&D 5E Introductory game first?
Or perhaps go by tier:
Novice - Levels 1-3
Adventurer - Levels 4-16
Epic - Levels 17-20
Sure; I chose the five sets of BECMI out of nostalgia, but 3 sets would work too.
I wish 4e had been released that way. PH1, DMG1, and MM1 focusing on the heroic tier, PH2, DMG2, and MM2 focusing on paragon, and PH3, DMG3, and MM3 focusing on epic.
CAFRedblade
Explorer
From what I remember, they'll probably put out a lvl 1-3 or 1-5 introductory set that only includes the default system rules (no additional modules, skills and such) with the four core classes, and the base races of human, elf, dwarf, halfling. (and maybe only one version [sub-race/subclass] of each one to streamline it)
This should probably all be released in the same time frame, at least with both the Intro and the main PHB.. if they want to get tricky on the marketing.. and leave the DMG and MM for a month later.. but really all three(if there are three) core books should be released simultaneously(I hope)..
This should probably all be released in the same time frame, at least with both the Intro and the main PHB.. if they want to get tricky on the marketing.. and leave the DMG and MM for a month later.. but really all three(if there are three) core books should be released simultaneously(I hope)..
Jeff Carlsen
Adventurer
The ultimate goal should be a single core product that is the entry point for all players. Whether it's a boxed set or a core rulebook, it contains the rules for the game, some DM advice, and the common monsters. Perhaps the rulebook includes the basic form of each class.
Then all other books build upon this. A Monster Manual with new monsters. A DMG that is mostly an Unearthed Arcana. A Player's Handbook with all the subclasses and feats in it (assuming these don't fit in the core rulebook) but not the rules.
Then all other books build upon this. A Monster Manual with new monsters. A DMG that is mostly an Unearthed Arcana. A Player's Handbook with all the subclasses and feats in it (assuming these don't fit in the core rulebook) but not the rules.
That might work well, so long as you are not concerned with anyone trying to convert their campaign between editions. Or trying to design BBEGs that are intended to be defeated later in the campaign. Or, otherwise have a desire to reach upper level mechanics right out of the gate.
I would really prefer a level based division of books like BECMI. It's how I was introduced to the game and you get the "Only one book to try" aspect. How they launch those books is another matter. The right way to do it might be to have three books* at launch: Heroic, Paragon and Epic? That way, you won't have to wait if you want to start off at Epic, and you only need one book if you want to just run Heroic and see how the game runs, instead of getting three (PHB/DMG/MM).
*With each book having a section for players, dungeon masters and monsters.
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
Yeah, not a bad idea.
- One book, complete game, levels 1-5 (say).
- Levels 5+ then become a PHB, DMG, MM
- Add another round of PHB/DMG/MM for epic or whatever high level play.
Alternately, what about this approach:
- One book that is the complete game, just with a limited number of classes and races (and spells, etc).
- The "expansion" book that has all the optional stuff ... the rest of the races, classes, rules modules.
- Later expansions for monsters, etc.
Too close to the 4E model?
There was a whole bunch of discussion about this probably a year and a half ago, and my thoughts now are the same as they were then. Publish the game in two different lines with two different formats.
The box set line, based on tier:
Novice Levels 1-4
Adventurer Levels 5-16
Epic Levels 17-20
Each box contains three softcover books, a player's book, a DM's book (with monsters), and a book of options. The Novice box player's and DM's books are all about the rules of the base game (4 races, 4 classes etc.), and the book of options gives all the standard and advanced rules up through 4th level (including the rest of the races and classes). The Adventurer and Epic, same way... base game rules in the first two books, book of options in the third.
Then you have the hardcover books, based on subject:
Player's Handbook
Dungeon Master's Guide
Monster Manual
Each of these three gives the rules for levels 1-20, with the standard and advanced rules appearing in each book (in the various sections front to back.)
Basically... players should be able to buy either publishing method complete set (box set or hardcover) and get all the rules for all the levels. There should be no rules you'd need to "cross over" to get, because that is how you end up paying for duplicate info.
Now, I know some people will say that putting a book in the boxed set full of the standard and advanced rules runs counter to what the boxed set should be and will "confuse people". But I think that so long as you just make explicit that the third book is a book of options, and that you add them to your game when you are comfortable... that is a much better option than telling them to go buy the hardcover book in order to get those standard and advanced rules. Because you are then basically making your boxed sets obsolete.
The only issue I have with my own suggestion is that it's based off of WotC's pseudo-tiers, and thus the Adventurer box set has so much more meat to it because of the much wider level range. Personally... I would rather have seen WotC use the 1-5, 6-15, 16-20 level splits for their individual tiers (thereby not making the middle tier so huge, and giving either end more heft.)
The box set line, based on tier:
Novice Levels 1-4
Adventurer Levels 5-16
Epic Levels 17-20
Each box contains three softcover books, a player's book, a DM's book (with monsters), and a book of options. The Novice box player's and DM's books are all about the rules of the base game (4 races, 4 classes etc.), and the book of options gives all the standard and advanced rules up through 4th level (including the rest of the races and classes). The Adventurer and Epic, same way... base game rules in the first two books, book of options in the third.
Then you have the hardcover books, based on subject:
Player's Handbook
Dungeon Master's Guide
Monster Manual
Each of these three gives the rules for levels 1-20, with the standard and advanced rules appearing in each book (in the various sections front to back.)
Basically... players should be able to buy either publishing method complete set (box set or hardcover) and get all the rules for all the levels. There should be no rules you'd need to "cross over" to get, because that is how you end up paying for duplicate info.
Now, I know some people will say that putting a book in the boxed set full of the standard and advanced rules runs counter to what the boxed set should be and will "confuse people". But I think that so long as you just make explicit that the third book is a book of options, and that you add them to your game when you are comfortable... that is a much better option than telling them to go buy the hardcover book in order to get those standard and advanced rules. Because you are then basically making your boxed sets obsolete.
The only issue I have with my own suggestion is that it's based off of WotC's pseudo-tiers, and thus the Adventurer box set has so much more meat to it because of the much wider level range. Personally... I would rather have seen WotC use the 1-5, 6-15, 16-20 level splits for their individual tiers (thereby not making the middle tier so huge, and giving either end more heft.)
Jester David
Hero
Previous Introductory sets were really designed for two purposes: a cheap introduction to the game and a gift-able product to introduce others to the game.
I'm not sure the former purpose works any longer.
We no longer need a cheap $20 box to get curious souls into the game: they can just have downloadable packages on the website that do that. How To Play booklettes and adventures. Beginner resources and the like. Which changes the entry cost from $20 plus dice to free plus dice. (Adding a "I lack dice" sidebar that offers optional rules based around d6s further reduces the cost.)
Really try and hook people cheaply. "The first time is free" philosophy. Especially if the rules are available on an SRD.
This leaves the latter purpose: a gift.
This still works but if you're designing a product an adult is going to give to a new player, you can raise the price a little. Comparable to a video game works. $40-$50. Really make it a worthwhile product. Include as much reusable material as possible like dice and maybe a wet erase map.
Maybe include a piece of paper with a discount code for DnDClassics.com offering a $15 off something, giving them a free adventure or something.
I'm not sure the former purpose works any longer.
We no longer need a cheap $20 box to get curious souls into the game: they can just have downloadable packages on the website that do that. How To Play booklettes and adventures. Beginner resources and the like. Which changes the entry cost from $20 plus dice to free plus dice. (Adding a "I lack dice" sidebar that offers optional rules based around d6s further reduces the cost.)
Really try and hook people cheaply. "The first time is free" philosophy. Especially if the rules are available on an SRD.
This leaves the latter purpose: a gift.
This still works but if you're designing a product an adult is going to give to a new player, you can raise the price a little. Comparable to a video game works. $40-$50. Really make it a worthwhile product. Include as much reusable material as possible like dice and maybe a wet erase map.
Maybe include a piece of paper with a discount code for DnDClassics.com offering a $15 off something, giving them a free adventure or something.
