Invisibility to spirits vs blindsight

[hong]

In my Britannia 3E campaign, I'm using a bunch of stuff from Oriental Adventures (long story). In particular, I'm using the spell lists, and the spirit subtype for certain creatures, including outsiders and dragons.

Last session, the party fought a very young red dragon. They were getting beaten up (naturally), and the druid cast invisibility to spirits. Here's the abbreviated spell description from OA:

Abjuration
Level: Sha 2
Target: 1 touched creature/level
Duration: 10 mins/level (D)
Save: Will negates
SR: Yes (harmless)

If a spirit fails its saving throw, it can't perceive the warded creatures and acts as though the warded creatures are not there. The warded creatures can move freely among spirits without being noticed, although they are perfectly visible to all other types of creatures. If a warded creature touches or attacks a spirit (even with a spell), the spell ends for all recipients.


Question: would the dragon's blindsight help against this spell? Would it even be able to do anything against the warded creatures if it failed the save?

I ruled that the dragon couldn't see or perceive the warded creatures even with blindsight, but it was still aware that they were there. So it couldn't finish off the severely wounded berserker in melee, but it did fry them nicely with its breath weapon.

I'd be interested to know how others would have run it.

 

[Crothian]

I think you did right on this ruling.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Yea, that sounds right. It's no illusion, after all, but an abjuration. It doesn't only fool your visual senses but affects all senses, including tremorsense or anything like that.

 

[hong]

Thanks, guys!

 

[Plane Sailing]

Does "spirit" mean generic creature then, is it not something specific like ghostly creatures? It sounds better than invisibility so I'd imagine a more restricted target audience.

I don't know OA, so please excuse me if the question is irrelevant.

 

[hong]

Does "spirit" mean generic creature then, is it not something specific like ghostly creatures? It sounds better than invisibility so I'd imagine a more restricted target audience.

I don't know OA, so please excuse me if the question is irrelevant.

No problem. "Spirit" is a new subtype, like "evil" or "fire", that refers to otherworldly creatures: demons, angels, and so on. A number of creatures in OA have the spirit subtype, including spirit folk (a new PC race), dragons, and tsuno (ogrish critters from Rokugan).

IMC, I'm giving it to all outsiders, dragons, elementals, fey, incorporeal undead, and anything else that has an "always X" alignment.

I'm also giving it to orcs, who are sorta like mortal demons.

 

[Thanee]

"If a spirit fails its saving throw, it can't perceive the warded creatures and acts as though the warded creatures are not there. The warded creatures can move freely among spirits without being noticed..."

I think the spirit-dragon could do nothing at all against the warded creatures and would not even be aware of their presence.

It's a lot more potent than invisibility as it seems... especially the "acts as though the warded creatures are not there" part seems quite strongly stand against the dragon using the breath attack.

Bye
Thanee

 

[hong]

"If a spirit fails its saving throw, it can't perceive the warded creatures and acts as though the warded creatures are not there. The warded creatures can move freely among spirits without being noticed..."

I think the spirit-dragon could do nothing at all against the warded creatures and would not even be aware of their presence.

It's a lot more potent than invisibility as it seems... especially the "acts as though the warded creatures are not there" part seems quite strongly stand against the dragon using the breath attack.

For a 2nd level spell, that would be over the top, I think.

I interpret the "act as though they're not there" bit as meaning that the spirit can't perceive them in any way possible (sight, sound, smell, etc). Hence you could simply walk into a dragon's lair, and if it failed the save, it would have no reason to believe you were around. However, it could still perceive the results of your actions, eg if you started opening its treasure chests, it might start thinking something was wonky. Also, if it had already seen you before the spell was cast, it would still be aware of your presence. In this case, it might think you had teleported away -- or cast the invisibility to spirits spell.

The spell doesn't have any mind-affecting or compulsion descriptor, so I think it's a reasonable interpretation. The spell can't _make_ the dragon forget about you.

 

[Thanee]

Yep, the spell is pretty badly worded...

Sounds reasonable to use it that way!

Bye
Thanee