invisibity and sneak attacks

[Blackmoor Darkwinter]

From SRD:

By activating this simple silver ring, the wearer can become invisible, as the spell.

Spell Invis:

The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature.

Not like LotR. You become visible. (that is unless I missed something in the FAQ/errata)

Blackmoor

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Making 2 attacks at the same time would entail more than just -2 to hit if you ask me.

I would cut damage too since you can't put as much into each attack. Maybe half with primary hand and nothing with off hand.

--Strict Spikey

 

[DMFTodd]

A nice even division of folks thinking both ways. My unofficial 2 cents:

You become invisible after you "attack". This, in my reading, is referring to the "attack" action, not the swinging of a sword. So whatever the "attack" is, the sneak attack damage applies to it.

In this case, the "attack" happens to be 3 attack rolls. Sneak attack damage would apply to all 3.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I would cut damage too since you can't put as much into each attack. Maybe half with primary hand and nothing with off hand.

When you say nothing with the off hand...

Do you mean no strength bonus? No damage due to the weapon's base damage di(c)e?

What about sneak attack? Enhancement bonus? Energy damage (eg Flaming, Frost, etc)?

What if the character was flying, and simply flew at the opponent with both blades in front of him?

The "can't put as much into each attack" is already simulated by the way that a two-handed attack gets more of a bonus than an off-hand attack. Zero damage is a bizarre idea... :-\

-Hyp.

 

[chilibean]

One rather difficult way to get 2 sneak attacks is to hide while being invisble. Sneak up to within range of your ranged sneak attack, but outside of the required minimum of 10', and make your ranged sneak attack. Invisiblity is broken instantly, but you can make a hide check at -20 to remain hidden since your more than 10' away. Then shoot again with your second attack.

There might be a loophole in the shuriken attack to allow 3 sneak attacks simultaneously against the same target, but it seems a bit too much on the pathetic side to allow sneak attack damage with a weapon only capable of doing 1 point with no str mod. If you feel generous you could rule the shurikens do auto crit for a big whopping 2 points of damage instead of 1 each, but that's about as far as I would go with that goofiness. Maybe somewhere it bans shuriken from being used for sneak attacks?

 

[Staffan]

There might be a loophole in the shuriken attack to allow 3 sneak attacks simultaneously against the same target, but it seems a bit too much on the pathetic side to allow sneak attack damage with a weapon only capable of doing 1 point with no str mod. If you feel generous you could rule the shurikens do auto crit for a big whopping 2 points of damage instead of 1 each, but that's about as far as I would go with that goofiness. Maybe somewhere it bans shuriken from being used for sneak attacks?

You're still only making one attack, even though you're rolling three times to see how successful that attack is. Thus, you only get one potential sneak attack per set of three shuriken. This is mentioned, among other places, in the D&D FAQ on WOTC's website.

 

[chilibean]

What about "double barrel" crossbows, shooting 2 arrows at the same time, stacking 2 special made throwing daggers or throwing axes together for a single throw and other such contraptions?

What about an Ettin with levels in Rogue? Imagine 2 great axes doing crits and sneak attacks simultaneously ... ouch ...

If someone is determined to get 2 attacks off simultaneously, then they will probably find a way if they are clever enough. Just be sure to give appropriate circumstance penalties if what they are trying is more difficult than a normal attack.

 

[Vander]

A nice even division of folks thinking both ways. My unofficial 2 cents:

You become invisible after you "attack". This, in my reading, is referring to the "attack" action, not the swinging of a sword. So whatever the "attack" is, the sneak attack damage applies to it.

In this case, the "attack" happens to be 3 attack rolls. Sneak attack damage would apply to all 3.

My 2 cents also: I agree, it would be option 3. Dont make the rules more complicated than they are. He is denied his Dex bonus until his turn.

 

[chilibean]

That doesn't work with the concept that you can take your first attack, THEN based on whether you hit or not, decide to take the rest of your attacks (for a full attack action) or move away (for a standard action and a move action).

Therefore it doesn't become a full attack action until you start swinging your sword the second time, since you could have moved away instead, and thus leaving it as a standard action instead.

Now if you want to be generous to the invisible attacker, you could say that the victim of his attack needs to succeed at a spot check, otherwise he was looking the other way when the blow landed and you can still get in a second sneak attack. But that's really just a rule0 call.

I never did like the fact that everyone on the battlefield is instantly aware of any person that has their invisiblity broken and instantly gets their full dex mod versus them. When 2 people walk around a corner and suddenly see each other, there is an initiative roll to see which gets to act first and who's flat footed. But when invis is broken, the guy who was hit is never flat footed, he always reacts fast enough to get his dex mod versus the second swing.

It seems to me that a house rule should be made to have a little "mini-initiative' check between just the 2 people involved. I'd give an extra +4 to the one that was invisible too. If the attacker wins, the defender is flat footed to only that 1 attacker for the rest of the attackers action. If the defender wins, then the defender gets his full dex bonus and thus can't be sneak attacked a second time. Also, if the defender is engaged in combat with someone else at the time, I'd give him a -4 on his check. Someone with uncanny dodge wouldn't have to worry though, because he won't loose his dex bonus even if flat footed.

 

[Darklone]

Careful

Take into account that the attacked person is entitled a spot check DC 20 to see if there is something invisible around.

He KNOWS he is gonna be attacked. He just does not know how the enemy hits. As soon as he hits, the enemy will see the next hit coming.