Invisible creatures detectable with a Spot DC20?

[Craer]

I'm playing an 8th level Ninja of the Crescent Moon, and can therefore turn invisible 8 times a day. Nearly every time I use this ability, I end up getting whacked anyway. It seems that my DM thinks that anyone who makes a spot check with a DC of 20 can see me weel enough to attack me. Does anyone else even *remember* this rule, let alone use it? Something about stirring up dust or some such thing.

Also, with the same character, can you be critted on whilst displaced (as the spell)? What about whilst invisible?

-Craer

 

[Dr_Rictus]

The rule is in the DMG, but the DM seems to be misunderstanding it. A DC 20 Spot check is only good enough to discern that there is an invisible creature in the vicinity, not where it is.

To tell where a creature is well enough to attack it is not a DC 20, but DC 40.

 

[kreynolds]

I'm playing an 8th level Ninja of the Crescent Moon, and can therefore turn invisible 8 times a day. Nearly every time I use this ability, I end up getting whacked anyway. It seems that my DM thinks that anyone who makes a spot check with a DC of 20 can see me weel enough to attack me. Does anyone else even *remember* this rule, let alone use it? Something about stirring up dust or some such thing.

A spot check of 20 will reveal to you that an invisible creature is near you (within 30 feet, page 78, DMG), but you can't actually see it. This is explicitly stated in the PH, page 74, Spot. If the creature is still, its DC 30 (also DMG). An inanimate object or unliving creature holding still, or a completely immobile creature is is DC 40 (also DMG).

To spot an invisible creature's location, you must beat the spot DC by 20 or higher. This allows you to locate them, but you still suffer the 50% chance to hit.

Tell your DM to read up on these sections. They're quite useful.

Also, with the same character, can you be critted on whilst displaced (as the spell)? What about whilst invisible?

Yes. However, unless either/both of these conditions can be negated by your attacker, you can't be sneak attacked either.

 

[Craer]

Can I get a page number? I don't have my books with me.

EDIT - Nevermind, I missed a post.

-Craer

 

[kreynolds]

Can I get a page number? I don't have my books with me.

Look up.

 

[melkoriii]

There is also a rule about using Listen to pinpoint the location of a invisable creature. Cant remember the page and dont have the book with me. But its like DC 20 or Beating the Move Silent by 20.

Still you have to contend with the 50% miss.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

There is also a rule about using Listen to pinpoint the location of a invisable creature. Cant remember the page and dont have the book with me.

All that stuff is in that same section of the DMG cited by kreynolds.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Note also, that you can probably use a hide check in place of the flat 20 spot check DC.

In other words, invisibility adds a +20 bonus to any hide check you make.

 

[AuraSeer]

Note also, that you can probably use a hide check in place of the flat 20 spot check DC.

In other words, invisibility adds a +20 bonus to any hide check you make.

I'm not sure this is allowed by the book, but I like it. This would make Spot/Hide work the same way as Listen/MoveSilently. (To pinpoint a monster with a Listen check, you need to beat its Move Silently result by 20.)

 

[Saeviomagy]

The rules have a static DC for detecting a creature being near. I think it would be silly to penalise someone with a good hide check to being limited to this number.

The rules on pinpointing then say that you need to beat the detection DC by 20.

It's a fairly simple leap to say that invisibility adds +20 to your hide check.

Personally I think that the spell should be written this way in the first place - ie invisibility gives a +20 circumstance bonus (so it doesn't stack with a cloak of elvenkind) to hide checks while it is active, and provides you with a 100% concealment and then just use the normal rules from there on (combining the rules for hiding and invisibility into one category).

The same should go for a number of other spells which currently make a rogue obsolete (knock, spider climb etc).

It would also mean that a particularly perceptive character (ludicrously so) could potentially spot an invisible character at a range greater than 30 feet (which is the current limit and seems a really arbitrary distance).