Iron Bands of Bilarro

[kitcik]

Gaseous Form, Reduce Person, Alter Self into something small and skinny, Sandform, Windwalk... unless all of these were vetoed by the DM (which would almost start to scale this item up to lesser artifact), there should still be ways to get out.

Sandform - have never found that spell in our world
Windwalk - does not work per DM
Alter Self - I am not an arcane caster (so no "self" spells)
gaseous Form or reduce person would have worked, but we did not have them memorized.

Freedom of Movement :: d20srd.org

Here is my question. When did said ruling happen? It sounds extremely like one of those 'on the spot' rulings that wind up disruptive to game-play rather than help it.

Druid cast Freedom of Movement on me. DM said "it does not work, you are physically held and it is not a grapple or pin."

Even reading it now:
"This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. The subject automatically succeeds on any grapple check made to resist a grapple attempt, as well as on grapple checks or Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin."
It is not 100% clear to me that this would work under RAW, although RAI would indicate it should as it references escape artist and the Iron Bands allow an Escape Artist check.

 

[animewatcha]

Sandform - have never found that spell in our world
Windwalk - does not work per DM
Alter Self - I am not an arcane caster (so no "self" spells)
gaseous Form or reduce person would have worked, but we did not have them memorized.



Druid cast Freedom of Movement on me. DM said "it does not work, you are physically held and it is not a grapple or pin."

Even reading it now:
"This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. The subject automatically succeeds on any grapple check made to resist a grapple attempt, as well as on grapple checks or Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin."
It is not 100% clear to me that this would work under RAW, although RAI would indicate it should as it references escape artist and the Iron Bands allow an Escape Artist check.

Loonook should have quoted the entire thing as with things like that, one needs to 'search around' the exact spot to see if anything helps/hinders. Basically, under the duration of the spell, you could do whatever movement or attack you wanted. Heck, you could 'move' to take them off. You could use them as an improvised garrote. Whatever. Nasically, sounds like DM gave one of those rulings that should have been done/said before the game even started.

Heck, one should ask 'how they bind you' as if just hands are bound. You should still be able to run.

 

[kitcik]

Loonook should have quoted the entire thing as with things like that, one needs to 'search around' the exact spot to see if anything helps/hinders. Basically, under the duration of the spell, you could do whatever movement or attack you wanted. Heck, you could 'move' to take them off. You could use them as an improvised garrote. Whatever. Nasically, sounds like DM gave one of those rulings that should have been done/said before the game even started.

Heck, one should ask 'how they bind you' as if just hands are bound. You should still be able to run.

First let me say that I agree with both your interpretation and your points.

That said, let me play devil's advocate and take the DM's side for a second.

It doesn't say "You can walk through metal bars" - I mean, you can't suddenly walk straight through a portcullis or a wall or a tree or a mountain just because you have freedom of movement. I wasn't magically held - I was encased in iron bars. The phrase "move and attack normally" could imply that if you are normally impeded by iron bars, you would still be impeded by iron bars. So, although I agree with your interpretation, I don't really have a problem with the DM's interpretation.

The only thing that annoyed me about that ruling was the fact that the bars specifically allow for an escape artist check and I would think Freedom of Movement would cause you to automatically succeed any escape artist check under RAI.

Oh well.

The dimensional lock thing was more annoying, but of course makes the item much more powerful now that it is in my hands. BWAHAHHAHA.

This seems like a great anti-mage item. Combined with the silence idea mentioned above, it knocks out somatic, verbal and material components AND command words, and mages are not likely to make a 30 str check or escape artist check without access to spells.

 

[animewatcha]

Can you find a way for your body to fit through the iron bars through? Like squeezing through tight spaces ( within reason of course ). Basically, don't abuse it and it should be fine. By all means, talk with the DM before next game session. Think up some 'scenarios' that might likely happen and have pre-determined solutions to help with. It won't solve everything, but it can helps things like this from 'not happening'. Like declaring freedom of movement 'wouldn't help' before it was being cast, so something else could be done. Hell, it's gotta have hitpoints. Sunder the SOB if you gotta.

 

[Empirate]

Can you find a way for your body to fit through the iron bars through? Like squeezing through tight spaces ( within reason of course ). Basically, don't abuse it and it should be fine. By all means, talk with the DM before next game session. Think up some 'scenarios' that might likely happen and have pre-determined solutions to help with. It won't solve everything, but it can helps things like this from 'not happening'. Like declaring freedom of movement 'wouldn't help' before it was being cast, so something else could be done. Hell, it's gotta have hitpoints. Sunder the SOB if you gotta.

I agree, it was a bit of a dick move to just go "no effect, sorry" AFTER the Druid cast his spell. On the other hand, if the item in question was intended as some kind of 'puzzle problem' - find the right spell/power/skill, and you'll get out, but you have to try them first - then this would be OK with me. I've done the same at various times: let the PCs come up with some clever ideas which require resources to overcome a problem. But not any clever idea will automatically work.
In the heat of battle, however, not giving a hint what might work and what won't is dickish. Especially if it makes one player twiddle his thumbs for FOUR HOURS while he waits for combat to wrap up.

I like the 'hit it until it breaks' idea a lot. Every object in D&D is bound to have HP. Even if it takes a DC 30 Str check to break them once you're bound up, it shouldn't be too difficult to just whack the damn thing to pieces.

Comparison: a 3'' thick iron wall has a break DC of 30, just like the Iron Bands of Bilarro. It has hardness 10 and 90 HP. Difficult, but not impossible to break. A 2'' thick iron door (hardness 10, 60 HP) has a break DC of 28. Now if we consider being bound up in the Iron Bands as imposing a hefty effective penalty on your Str checks while you're trying to flex your muscles, the "original" DC might be lower than that. Which would mean even fewer HP.

 

[anest1s]

First let me say that I agree with both your interpretation and your points.

That said, let me play devil's advocate and take the DM's side for a second.

It doesn't say "You can walk through metal bars" - I mean, you can't suddenly walk straight through a portcullis or a wall or a tree or a mountain just because you have freedom of movement. I wasn't magically held - I was encased in iron bars. The phrase "move and attack normally" could imply that if you are normally impeded by iron bars, you would still be impeded by iron bars. So, although I agree with your interpretation, I don't really have a problem with the DM's interpretation.

The only thing that annoyed me about that ruling was the fact that the bars specifically allow for an escape artist check and I would think Freedom of Movement would cause you to automatically succeed any escape artist check under RAI.

Oh well.

The dimensional lock thing was more annoying, but of course makes the item much more powerful now that it is in my hands. BWAHAHHAHA.

This seems like a great anti-mage item. Combined with the silence idea mentioned above, it knocks out somatic, verbal and material components AND command words, and mages are not likely to make a 30 str check or escape artist check without access to spells.

It is a magic item right?

"even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement"
It allows you to move trough a web spell, which is very similar to the walk through metal bars. However the metal bars example is irrelevant to the spell - it would be relevant if you were forcecaged, but in this situation you have animated bands that try to grapple you.

Also, freedom of movement without doubt would allow you to win a grapple with a Grasping Hand :: d20srd.org which is the spell used to create that magic item.

 

[trancejeremy]

Well, bear in mind, it was a 1e magic item retro-fitted to 3e.

It used to use the bend bars/lift gate percentage for Strength, but that doesn't really translate into Strength checks very well.

 

[Empath Negative]

I don't think Freedom of Movement applies here.

There's a big difference between Magic... and a Magic Item. Further, consider the nature of the Iron bands vs. that of Solid Fog or Web.


Freedom of Movement doesn't allow you to walk *through* walls. Not as in Ethereal walk through them... but more He-Man walk through them. If I summon a wall of iron does Freedom of Movement allow you to walk through it?

If the answer is no, why would Freedom of Movement twist metal bands to allow you to escape? The wording is pretty plain, it allows you to escape from a grapple or a pin and the Iron Bands are doing neither, no more than you can grapple a piece of rope. Further the magic is instantaneous... and permanent. Not even an AMF would save you here.

Adding dimensional this or that etc etc was kind of sketchy... but it's DMs prerogative.

 

[kitcik]

I don't think Freedom of Movement applies here.

There's a big difference between Magic... and a Magic Item. Further, consider the nature of the Iron bands vs. that of Solid Fog or Web.


Freedom of Movement doesn't allow you to walk *through* walls. Not as in Ethereal walk through them... but more He-Man walk through them. If I summon a wall of iron does Freedom of Movement allow you to walk through it?

If the answer is no, why would Freedom of Movement twist metal bands to allow you to escape? The wording is pretty plain, it allows you to escape from a grapple or a pin and the Iron Bands are doing neither, no more than you can grapple a piece of rope. Further the magic is instantaneous... and permanent. Not even an AMF would save you here.

Adding dimensional this or that etc etc was kind of sketchy... but it's DMs prerogative.

That's exactly how I felt except for one thing. A Wall of Iron does not allow for an escape artist check. This does. Should not a "Freedom of Movement" assist your escape artist check? If you can slip out of a grapple with it, can't you slip out of a tight squeeze?

Anyway, the purpose of the thread was not to whine - it was a great encounter even though I didn't get to roll any dice. The point was to say "this is a pretty wicked item - everyone should think about getting one, particularly if you can add a dimensional lock." [and Silence based on the above suggestion]

 

[anest1s]

I don't think Freedom of Movement applies here.

There's a big difference between Magic... and a Magic Item. Further, consider the nature of the Iron bands vs. that of Solid Fog or Web.


Freedom of Movement doesn't allow you to walk *through* walls. Not as in Ethereal walk through them... but more He-Man walk through them. If I summon a wall of iron does Freedom of Movement allow you to walk through it?

If the answer is no, why would Freedom of Movement twist metal bands to allow you to escape? The wording is pretty plain, it allows you to escape from a grapple or a pin and the Iron Bands are doing neither, no more than you can grapple a piece of rope. Further the magic is instantaneous... and permanent. Not even an AMF would save you here.

Adding dimensional this or that etc etc was kind of sketchy... but it's DMs prerogative.

That's exactly how I felt except for one thing. A Wall of Iron does not allow for an escape artist check. This does. Should not a "Freedom of Movement" assist your escape artist check? If you can slip out of a grapple with it, can't you slip out of a tight squeeze?

Anyway, the purpose of the thread was not to whine - it was a great encounter even though I didn't get to roll any dice. The point was to say "this is a pretty wicked item - everyone should think about getting one, particularly if you can add a dimensional lock." [and Silence based on the above suggestion]

What are you guys talking about? I thought they were bands that tried to grapple you? Even if we accept that the magic item isn't magical there is the plain grapple thing. Freedom of movement would work against an animated rope? Animate Rope :: d20srd.org I think it would. I imagine it like being a super-grease oil. It would help you move through a web (prevents the web from sticking), but not through a wall. It would help you escape artist through bars. If grease helps, freedom of movement def. helps.

(+it says "magic" not "spell".)

Also the spell it was made of has a grapple DC exactly higher than 30+1d20 and you can choose other targets. If it wasn't for the duration the spell would be way better.

You tried dispelled the magic item?