Iron Heroes in a "DnD campaign setting"

[Pbartender]

While this is somewhat true, IH still gives far more honor and power to social interaction than D&D ever did. I've seen a socially-oriented IH game in play and it was most impressive. The only thing that really distinguished the IH PCs from NPC diplomats was that the PCs were able to fight on the few occasions when their diplomacy failed.

QFT.

Add to this the fact that, having picked the appropriate Traits and/or feats, even a silver-tonuged smooth-talker can be a killer combatant... Things like Weapon Bond (Charisma), Inspiring Presence, and Overwhelming Presence in conjunction with Charisma-skill-based stunts will turn an average, run-of-the-mill Thief into a swashbuckling, Dashing Swordsman the likes of Julio Scoundrél -- and do it without the need for a prestige class.

 

[Capellan]

As others have noted, other than spellcasting (which you've already discounted) there is pretty much nothing a Bard can do in D&D that a Man-at-Arms or (even moreso) a Thief can't do better.

And if you have Mastering Iron Heroes, there are also Wealth Feats, which any character can use.

 

[TarionzCousin]

Weak Magic System?

I especially wanted to avoid "I win" magic. Well, I have a very awesome and flexible fix for magic so that isn't the situation. Also, I'm not in favor of magical items being the source of PC's power, so that isn't a situation either.

Okay, it looks like the Thief is your answer. So, before this thread dies, do you have your magic system posted somewhere? Or, could you post it here. I would be very interested.

 

[Bagpuss]

Another voice saying Man-at-arms is a good pick.

Free choice on skill groups and where your bonus feats come from. Use Charisma and Intelligence as your primary attributes, then have the Weapon Bond trait or use Tactics of the Mind so you are still good in combat. Pick your feats from TotM, Overwhelming Presence and the other social masteries and you are away. The flexibility of the Man-at-Arms class shouldn't be overlooked.

 

[ruleslawyer]

I DM an IH campaign set in Waterdeep (Forgotten Realms) right now. It works fine.

As VGH noted, social skills are *far* more developed and useful in IH than in D&D, and in almost every d20 variant I've seen. Throw in the existence of a base character class entirely devoted to their use (the Thief), a series of feats dedicated to leveraging those skills, and the fact that the only real mechanics for the use for character wealth essentially boil down to social manipulation, and you've got a lot of potential for a social game.

But yes; the thief is a mighty "face" character. You can, however, build a bard-type character (that is, lots of skill uses, decent combat ability, and light "magic") using the man-at-arms. The major difference between a bard-like MaA and the D&D bard is that the MaA will be basically like a combat- and skill-buffed bard without needing the buffing spells, and the bard's "magic" will be expressed in the form of the IH social feats.

If you're looking for actual magic qua spellcasting, I'd consider looking at Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth. The system is easy to use, and tremendously easy to modify in order to eliminate "I win" magic (specifically, raise the casting DC modifiers for direct-damage and domination effects, and/or directly bump up the base casting DC to 15 + spell level or so). The Black Company magic system (a/k/a Green Ronin's True Sorcery) also can work for this, but it is a *lot* more complicated, and IMX the more developed the ruleset is for something, the more emphasis it seems to take on in game.

That said, I'd love to see your fix!