Iron Heroes...is it really different from core D&D?

[DonTadow]

I keep giving you the benefit of the doubt, and checking your statemnt for accuracy. I'm nice that way.

What chart are you talikng about?

The conversions in the IH book talk of bringing either IH rules into regular d20 (skills, skill
groups, traits, feats). It explicitly says don't use the arcanist.

The conversion in MIH talk about Importing spellcasters. The only chart in that section deals with hp conversions. Now I'll grant that the following sentence:



doesn't exclude the use of spellcasting classes as PCs. IMO it's a very strong reccomendation not to use them, but I'll agree it isn't 100% exclusionary. You say you can use thes conversion guidelines perfectly. VGH and myself have consistently asked for how you handle the balance issues of dealing with IH classes with access to buffing magic and the magical equipment. You have managed to ignore us every time. The way Mearles details how to include IH classes is to hit them with the nerf bat. Hit them hard. IMO, if you apply those conversions, your aren't actually playing Iron Hereos with high PC magic, you're playing High PC magic with some ported in IH rules. There's a big differnce to me. But without any more info from you, there's no way to tell.

By the way, you've evaded answering every time we've asked for proof from your point of view. Please elaborate somewhat more than just saying: "you're wrong and I'm right" without the decency of at least explaining your position. Throughout this discussion you've falsely accused different people of: (1) not reading the books, (2) misinterpreting fluff for crunch, and (3) saying that you are having bad/wrong fun.

I've provided quotes and gave the entire book as an example. What y'ure asking me to do is prove it doesnt say low magic in it. Well I'd have to quote every single page because thats the evidence. Not a single one of those pages says low magic.

Thats why I say the proof of burden is on you guys. If you find a statement saying Iron Heroes is low magic specific and spellcasters do not work as pcs, I'll just shut my mouth and go back to eating cheesecake.

BTW By chart I meant the section on conversion. My bad for calling it a chart.

 

[Ry]

As much as running games without PC magic can be easier than games with PC magic, IH is NOT rules light, and has its own learning curve. Figuring out what all the classes can do, and how to handle that, is a real task the DM should undertake if you don't want to go through the experience of rules-misinterpretations that we all went through when 3.0 came out. I found it far more complex than I was looking for.

 

[ValhallaGH]

As much as running games without PC magic can be easier than games with PC magic, IH is NOT rules light, and has its own learning curve. Figuring out what all the classes can do, and how to handle that, is a real task the DM should undertake if you don't want to go through the experience of rules-misinterpretations that we all went through when 3.0 came out. I found it far more complex than I was looking for.

That seems to be a common reason for not using the ruleset. And it is an understandable one, IH is number-crunchy and rules heavy. Deffinately not for the faint of heart.

On the other hand, all of my games (not just IH) have gotten much cooler since I started playing it because the rules encourage the sort of inventiveness that leads to truly great moments but is often missing from the play of RPG veterans.

 

[Kesh]

So, how well do the IH classes blend into a standard 3.5e game? I've been waffling on IH, mostly because I know I'd never get to run a full campaign on those rules, but the pool system is also a little confusing.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Token pools are easy. Really easy. As in "hit point easy." Maybe easier.

Blending IH with 3.5 can be difficult; it depends upon how you want things to run. You seem to want to fold IH into normal D&D, which is easy.
For that there are conversion guidelines in the back of the book. Basically, Iron Heroes in D&D end up with fewer skills and feats than they had in IH, and their token abilities have double the cost.
Though if you get IH then you'll likely want to replace the Barbarian with the Berzerker, the Fighter with the Man At Arms and you may (or may not) want to import skill groups. All of these options are also supported.

If you love IH then you'll want to fold D&D back into it. Which is much harder as there are no real guidelines for this (except the ones that DonTadow repeatedly refuses to share).
Hop on over to the IH forums and we can combine our attempts to do such a thing.

 

[Ry]

I disagree - mixing the two is difficult from either side, because IH characters w/o magic items are designed to be as powerful as 3.5 characters with magic items.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I disagree - mixing the two is difficult from either side, because IH characters w/o magic items are designed to be as powerful as 3.5 characters with magic items.

But their are guidelines in the book for IH characters, just as ValhallaGH wrote. Essentially, a IH character imported into D&D game would lose or reduce some of his advantages to be on par with a baseline D&D character, so he can use magic items and not overshadow D&D core class characters.

 

[DonTadow]

I disagree - mixing the two is difficult from either side, because IH characters w/o magic items are designed to be as powerful as 3.5 characters with magic items.

But thats a point i made. Give the 3.5 characters +yada swords and armor.

Or you can always do like i did, give the 3.5 characters a feat every 2 levels and give them a ddefensive score of half of their level.

 

[ValhallaGH]

But thats a point i made. Give the 3.5 characters +yada swords and armor.

How do you keep the IH characters from using the +yada weapons and armor?

Or you can always do like i did, give the 3.5 characters a feat every 2 levels and give them a ddefensive score of half of their level.

Is that all you did?

 

[DonTadow]

How do you keep the IH characters from using the +yada weapons and armor?

Easy, IH pCs can't use armor or weapons. Similiar to the rule of how the dm gets the last slice of pizza.

I didn't want to deal with armor or magic at all.